Blind spots

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Blind spots

Postby Caplin on Tue 14 Mar 2017 14:57

Hi All,

So I'm wondering if there's any sort of "rule of thumb," I can use to determine whether a ship is in an enemy's blind spot or not.

If a ship is in the center hex, 4232, facing 1, then obviously 4233, 4234, etc are in the blind spot. Where I run into a bit of trouble is figuring out how far it extends past the obvious one-hex width. I can't help but feel that if I could see a map laid out visually it would be a lot more obvious.

This question was prompted by an example in 3rd Revised, about ships which use de-tuning having a 120-degree blind spot. Solar seems to have similar rules in some cases, but at least diagrams them, even though I can't see the visual aid :)

Any insight would be appreciated. I feel like I'm missing something obvious.
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Re: Blind spots

Postby Xveers on Tue 14 Mar 2017 23:52

Hello!

There actually is a bit of a rule for the blind spot. Basically, you count from the hex behind the ship Down, Down Right. Down, Down right. So in your example, if the ship was in 4232, Facing 1, then your first blindspot is in 4233. Then you go down to 4234. Then down and left to 4133, or down and right to 4333. Then you'd go down again to 4134 / 4334, and so you continue onwards.

Does that make any sense?
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Re: Blind spots

Postby Cralis on Wed 15 Mar 2017 09:49

Xveers is talking about the 60-degree blindspot for I engines. It sounds like you are asking about the 120 degree blindspot of J engines, Caplin?
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Re: Blind spots

Postby Caplin on Wed 15 Mar 2017 10:00

Either, to be honest. The principle seems similar. I guess it is a cone shaped group of hexes, from what I can picture. I gather that places to the left and right of the "cone," aren't in the blind spot?
Thanks for helping me pars this :-)
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Re: Blind spots

Postby Caplin on Wed 15 Mar 2017 11:42

Sorry for the double post ;)

As I've had the chance to look at my copy of the hex map this morning, I feel like I'm missing something. Perhaps the hex numbering is different, but when I go down and right from 4234, I land on 4335, not 4333 or 4133. Those seem to be up, not down. It's a bit confusing because of the way the hex map spreadsheet is laid out, but "right," seems to take me to either 4334 or 4335, depending how I interpret it.

I definitely feel like there's something odd going on here, though not sure what :)
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Re: Blind spots

Postby Cralis on Wed 15 Mar 2017 16:52

Caplin wrote:Either, to be honest. The principle seems similar. I guess it is a cone shaped group of hexes, from what I can picture. I gather that places to the left and right of the "cone," aren't in the blind spot?


Any enemies in-between the edges of the cone are in the blindspot. Any enemies outside the edges of the cone, ie. to the right of the right edge and to the left of the left edge, are outside of the cone. So basically any enemies "inside the cone" are "inside the blindspot"

I've never had to try and define it without a visual representation, so I hope that's more clear.

As I've had the chance to look at my copy of the hex map this morning, I feel like I'm missing something. Perhaps the hex numbering is different, but when I go down and right from 4234, I land on 4335, not 4333 or 4133. Those seem to be up, not down. It's a bit confusing because of the way the hex map spreadsheet is laid out, but "right," seems to take me to either 4334 or 4335, depending how I interpret it.


It's entirely possible his map is numbered in the opposite direction (ascending vs. descending), as you are using a map representation and he's using an actual printed map from Starfire. I'd have to exam it in more detail to know for sure. Another possibility is that the numbering could be slightly different left-to-right so that going down and right may be 4234 to 4334 on one map, and may be 4234 to 4335 on another map. Some of the old maps that Task Force Games had made for both Starfire and Star Fleet Battles were slightly off like that.

So I wouldn't worry about it too much.

The important detail is that the edges of the 60-degree blindspot cone starts "aft one hex" and then goes "aft one hex followed by aft and left one hex" for the left edge, and "aft one hex followed by aft and right one hex" for the right edge, continued infinitely. You could think of it sorta like stair-stepping right and left to create the cone.

The 120-degree arc is a little different. You start "aft one hex" and then go "aft and left one hex" for the left edge, and "aft and right one hex" for the right edge. So it's like a straight row of hexes angled away from the ship. It is much easier to map.
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Re: Blind spots

Postby southwestforests on Wed 15 Mar 2017 16:53

I'm trying to help by pulling out my 1990s Starfire maps. Hmm, the basic six panel rectangular tactical map ends at hex 4230.

Now, however, the quite large four part 36 inch by 44 inch system scale map with the radians coming out from center hex does exactly what you found. The printed map is 4 parts, top and bottom each for left and right. The 42 row is on left edge of the lower right quarter of printed map. It is the center row when sections are joined to make full system map. Hex 4233 is is at bottom, south, side of center hex. Row vertically down is numbered consecutively 4233 to 4264.

Starting with 4234 as you did and continuing down and to right at what in the hexes is a 120 degree angle from North vertical, continuing down and right along that line of hexes goes, and I'm going to list them vertically on different lines here:
4335
4435
4536
4636
4737
4837
4938
5038
on out to
8253 and 8254 at end
hoping that helps some without confusing the issue more.
later,
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Re: Blind spots

Postby Caplin on Wed 15 Mar 2017 17:00

Thanks, both of you :)

Yeah, my representation is supposed to mimic the big 4-part system map. I guess it's quite a bit bigger than required for most tactical games, but I appreciate it anyway.

I'll try not to fret over little details and just enjoy the game.
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Re: Blind spots

Postby southwestforests on Wed 15 Mar 2017 17:04

Welcome! I had to go back and fix some misspellings and wrong words, my body is being difficult to get along with this evening. Hopefully they got fixed before you read the post! Oh dear, such is life. :lol:
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Re: Blind spots

Postby southwestforests on Wed 15 Mar 2017 17:05

Caplin wrote:I'll try not to fret over little details ...
Yeah, leave that to the ships' engineers and supply officers, that's what they make the big bucks for.
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