General clarification questions

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Re: General clarification questions

Postby Xveers on Sun 19 Mar 2017 19:03

Cralis wrote:I think the important thing not explicitly said here is that the CFN will NOT automatically ship resources and components to your mobile shipyard. You have to hire CFN shipping to move the materials for you.


I always operated under the assumption that if you were using flat MegaCredits to build something in a mobile shipyard, that was it, and you didn't need to hire the CFN to specifically move that MC from a nearby planet to the yard (assuming you had a valid path for your CFN to travel safely). That just represents oranizational planning tying in your orders to pre-existing supply chains (and also your pseudoscience on what constitutes a "shipyard" in your universe.).

For building work with prefabbed resources you of course have to pay to have those shipped.
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby Cralis on Mon 20 Mar 2017 01:19

Xveers wrote:
Cralis wrote:I think the important thing not explicitly said here is that the CFN will NOT automatically ship resources and components to your mobile shipyard. You have to hire CFN shipping to move the materials for you.


I always operated under the assumption that if you were using flat MegaCredits to build something in a mobile shipyard, that was it, and you didn't need to hire the CFN to specifically move that MC from a nearby planet to the yard (assuming you had a valid path for your CFN to travel safely). That just represents oranizational planning tying in your orders to pre-existing supply chains (and also your pseudoscience on what constitutes a "shipyard" in your universe.).


This is a good question. So let me pose a hypothetical to you.

I've got a mobile shipyard and it's 4 jumps out from my nearest population. It's following my fleet and repairing damaged ships as I push the enemy. But I decide I want to start building bases every jump to consolidate my captured territory.

Does my mobile shipyard get the raw MCr through the CFN for free and automatically?

Next month we find a probe by the enemy, get his navigational charts and find a WP to a system with one more WP. We move there and my mobile shipyard starts building bases. This was unexpected... still getting the materials for free?

Now we are nearly at the end, 13 jumps out from our empire. But we need to seal him in while we lick our wounds. I start building bases... still free?

For building work with prefabbed resources you of course have to pay to have those shipped.
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby Lomn on Mon 20 Mar 2017 08:54

Jumping in with my take on the mobile shipyard / CFN thing:

I would expect the key question is "is the CFN servicing the system where the mobile shipyard is located?" If yes, then churning raw MCr into stuff seems fine. If no, then shipping the input material (whether prefab or as some form of MCr) seems reasonable. That then leads to the next question: is that MCr shipped as maintenance (1 csp / MCr) or wealth (10 csp / MCr)?

This also feeds into the occasional recurring discussion of how far the CFN will extend beyond imperial populations to support imperial units for maintenance purposes. I tend to assume that the CFN will bring maintenance to not-too-distant survey fleets, for instance, but the 13 jump example is a good case for finding some sort of bright line. So on this line, if the CFN is in-system strictly for maintenance delivery and the shipyard builds stuff from MCr-as-maintenance, then the remote repair/etc without specific delivery seems reasonable to me (the rules note that there's an excess of projected maintenance in the CFN pipeline).

Next suppose that the only driver of maintenance in that system is the shipyard itself. The CFN brings stuff to the shipyard; does it also bring (a massive multiple of maintenance) stuff for construction? Eh, trickier. Simple answer is to stick exactly with the above: if CFN present with material used for construction, permit construction from MCr. More complex answer could be to apply the "3x projected maintenance capacity available" blurb from the L7 intro, which would permit 2x maintenance in the chain to be used as surplus construction material. I don't like adding that extra calc, personally, and favor either "if population-driven CFN present" or "if any CFN present" as the prerequisite for building with MCr.

---

Backpedaling a bit, here's the very very basic model of mobile construction unit:
Code: Select all
Construction-class FT4    (AC)    30 HS / 21 TS
[2] (Ica) (SYM) Qa (Ica) [2/2]
Trg: 1    Def: 0    Cost: 277.5 / 9.6    SL 1    4 HTK
Note that it does not achieve full speed for the hull/engine type, but it fits into what a standard empire starts with on Day 1.
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby GunBunny on Mon 20 Mar 2017 17:07

Thanks for the Mobile designs, gives me something to chew on and try,and I appreciate the responses along with patience for a new campaign learner.

Two more questions:

1- When you start off and research Construction (Just realized this is EL not SL, so no need to research construction as long as I'm improving EL correct?) are the Hulls listed at that level available to prototype or do you have to research those hulls first then prototype?

2- For those Solo campaigns, how do YOU determine if newly found WPs double back to another system that you have found but not yet surveyed its WPs? I know this is a player hat vs SM hat situation that Cralis has mentioned, but how do you handle it? For example do you roll for a small percentage chance that it connects to a previous one, like say 5% or less or do you have another method?
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby olivertheorem on Mon 20 Mar 2017 18:59

I'm pretty sure the warp point generation section of the rules mentions some kind of "double-back" rate, to use your term. I forget what it is though.
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby Xveers on Mon 20 Mar 2017 19:45

Cralis wrote:This is a good question. So let me pose a hypothetical to you.

I've got a mobile shipyard and it's 4 jumps out from my nearest population. It's following my fleet and repairing damaged ships as I push the enemy. But I decide I want to start building bases every jump to consolidate my captured territory.

Does my mobile shipyard get the raw MCr through the CFN for free and automatically?

Next month we find a probe by the enemy, get his navigational charts and find a WP to a system with one more WP. We move there and my mobile shipyard starts building bases. This was unexpected... still getting the materials for free?

Now we are nearly at the end, 13 jumps out from our empire. But we need to seal him in while we lick our wounds. I start building bases... still free?


And I posit one right back: Am I paying the CFN to ship the monthly maintenence to my fleet?
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby Xveers on Mon 20 Mar 2017 19:55

GunBunny wrote:Thanks for the Mobile designs, gives me something to chew on and try,and I appreciate the responses along with patience for a new campaign learner.

Two more questions:

1- When you start off and research Construction (Just realized this is EL not SL, so no need to research construction as long as I'm improving EL correct?) are the Hulls listed at that level available to prototype or do you have to research those hulls first then prototype?

2- For those Solo campaigns, how do YOU determine if newly found WPs double back to another system that you have found but not yet surveyed its WPs? I know this is a player hat vs SM hat situation that Cralis has mentioned, but how do you handle it? For example do you roll for a small percentage chance that it connects to a previous one, like say 5% or less or do you have another method?


Don't ever feel bad about having to ask! As you might guess from the conversation that's happening here, there's plenty of people who've been out doing this for a long while who have their own interpretations!

1) So, yes, construction SL moves along in time with your EL. That is to say when you get EL 3, you get Construction SL 3 as well. At that point the hulls are available to be prototyped. Yes, this means that you COULD go push your Construction SL higher than your EL, but this is (at face value) a very poor and expensive idea. It CAN however be useful since SL research has quite a few more ways to be accellerated, and if you absolutetely positively NEED something one SL along, it can be done.

2) Myself, I use a somewhat hybrid approach. I have a pregenerated universe of about 2500 stars, but I generate teh warp links dynamically with the cluster rules (1-8 on a D10 makes it +/- 20 from the departure system, 9-10 makes it a pure random roll). I then check the list for the new system, and see if it has a warp point that is a valid connection. If so, I link it right up. If it goes to a pre-existing system, I check to see if there's a valid unsurveyed warp point. If so, link established! if not, then I go on to the next system in the list until I find a valid WP to link to.

This way, while I know all the stars in my universe, I don't know how they'll link together until I actually survey them.
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby Elminster on Tue 21 Mar 2017 03:24

Xveers wrote:
GunBunny wrote:1- When you start off and research Construction (Just realized this is EL not SL, so no need to research construction as long as I'm improving EL correct?) are the Hulls listed at that level available to prototype or do you have to research those hulls first then prototype?

1) So, yes, construction SL moves along in time with your EL. That is to say when you get EL 3, you get Construction SL 3 as well. At that point the hulls are available to be prototyped. Yes, this means that you COULD go push your Construction SL higher than your EL, but this is (at face value) a very poor and expensive idea. It CAN however be useful since SL research has quite a few more ways to be accellerated, and if you absolutetely positively NEED something one SL along, it can be done.

Just want to emphasize that you don't have to research the hulls separately. The task of building the prototype (and paying extra for it) includes the research part.
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby GunBunny on Wed 22 Mar 2017 18:36

Olivertheorem

I'm pretty sure the warp point generation section of the rules mentions some kind of "double-back" rate, to use your term. I forget what it is though.


Wouldn't you know it as soon as I read this I flipped to section W and Bam there it is.

Elminster

Just want to emphasize that you don't have to research the hulls separately. The task of building the prototype (and paying extra for it) includes the research part.


Thanks for the clarification, would have started a CL prototype earlier if I had understood this.

Here is another:

Communications, exactly how long does it take to receive news from the borders of your empire? I think I need this explained as if I am a 6 year old. I have read section P. I know what the ICN is and does, I understand courier drones, I know where the CFN travels, I understand Broad vs Tight beam. I just cant find a concrete example of general strategic/survey information passing from one system to another and the TIME required. I THINK the maximum distance info can travel would be six systems a strategic turn, based on pulsed movement etc.(disclaimer: each time I pose a question it seems the answer is in the rules somewhere but hey my search fu is only so strong)

Scenario 1: My survey fleet is one system distant from my home system and finishes a planetary survey, how long does it take the information to reach my capitol? I assume this can be adjusted by the technology available and Survey SOPs. I have been using WP pickets that loiter at entry to act as a relay for information and early warning of trouble. So I would think with this set up the survey finishes, surveyor beam transmits to WP Picket, WP Picket transits WP and Beams to capitol and then returns to survey system. So in this scenario the information arrives at the end of the strategic turn to be acted upon the next turn. Or am I wrong?

Scenario 2: Same basic as above but now two systems distant (2 WPs) with a colony in the in between system. The last leg (colony to Capitol) could be transmitted through the CFN correct? How would that change the time of arrival?

Scenario 3: I want to send an order change to the Survey fleet in scenario 2 (two systems away), How long does the message take to reach the Survey fleet Using WP Picket messenger relays? What if I relied on CFN for order delivery? What about using an ICN or courier drones? (there is a lot in this question sorry for that)
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Re: General clarification questions

Postby Whitecold on Thu 23 Mar 2017 00:28

GunBunny wrote:Scenario 1: My survey fleet is one system distant from my home system and finishes a planetary survey, how long does it take the information to reach my capitol? I assume this can be adjusted by the technology available and Survey SOPs. I have been using WP pickets that loiter at entry to act as a relay for information and early warning of trouble. So I would think with this set up the survey finishes, surveyor beam transmits to WP Picket, WP Picket transits WP and Beams to capitol and then returns to survey system. So in this scenario the information arrives at the end of the strategic turn to be acted upon the next turn. Or am I wrong?

Light has strategic speed 120 StMP (and also tactical speed of 120). So one system away is less than a day. This does not depend on technology, no tech changes light speed.

Scenario 2: Same basic as above but now two systems distant (2 WPs) with a colony in the in between system. The last leg (colony to Capitol) could be transmitted through the CFN correct? How would that change the time of arrival?

You could, but CFN is slow. The CFN speed is usually 4, so results from a survey two systems away would take 15 days to reach the capital. If you have pickets at one Warp Point, you can cut that in half. With pickets or (CC) at both warp points, the information is there in half a day.
Scenario 3: I want to send an order change to the Survey fleet in scenario 2 (two systems away), How long does the message take to reach the Survey fleet Using WP Picket messenger relays? What if I relied on CFN for order delivery? What about using an ICN or courier drones? (there is a lot in this question sorry for that)

[/quote]
The ICN is the term encompassing all your communication methods. DEEP1 on the drone allows a speed 7 for this trip, giving you 5 days. The CFN again takes half a month (2 / 4 ), and if you have pickets or (CC) available you need half a day.
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