DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Home of SOLAR STARFIRE, 6th edition, rules based on the upcoming history of the Terran Solar Union.

Moderators: SDS Members, SDS Owner

Forum rules
1. Nothing obscene.
2. No advertising or spamming.
3. No personal information. Mostly aimed at the posting of OTHER people's information.
4. No flame wars. We encourage debate, but it becomes a flame when insults fly and tempers flare.

Try to stick with the forum's topic. Threads that belong to another forum will be moved to that forum.

Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby Cralis on Thu 08 Aug 2019 20:31

SCC wrote:1) To make things a bit more interesting, and to give players an option for investment because colonization is basically off the table, IU are now a Sovereign Wealth Fund. This means that IU income is not included in GPV or and other calculations. TGI is now simply the Empires total PU count, a new EBID(T) is used for calculating CC and CFN size, and is the modified population income and trade income. IU income is now affected by all of REI, Governor and EVB.


I’m not sure what you’re trying to do here. IU that is affected by environmental modifiers but isn’t GPV? Maybe I’m just overly sleep deprived today, but I’m not seeing the logic for how this would work?

2) Players have a PCM of zero until they control two or more planets in a system for system pools, and until they have settlements in two or more planets for imperial wide. Until these conditions are meet they have no CFN and must provide imperial FT for any trade treaties. These FT earn normal leasing income on top of the trade boost.


So... PCM was really just for races that are just reaching into space. Once in space there will be civilian industrialization (for example: asteroid and moon miners) and haulers, space tourism, short term camps (think McMurdo Station but on a moon or asteroid), solar stations, etc. Not to mention shuttle and freighters to support all of that. AND a small number of freighters that will trade between adjacent populated systems that won’t count towards the CFN.

So even a new colony will have that kind of support move in, practically at the same time. It will be proportionate to the population size. But at full PCM.

3) Empires with populations too small to support FAC won't suffer any penalties for lacking said FAC (This is for the 60 and 180 PU NPR's)


So you can have 30 RDS in a system with a single 1 PU colony and because it generates no FSP that’s ok? May I recommend that instead all populated systems have 1 FSP at minimum?

4) Players start with 1,000 PU, a single SYM and 1,000 MCr to spend on stuff.


Are they no longer going to have adjacent systems pre-explored?

5) G, I, F, and V worlds are uninhabited because T Qt wouldn't be able to survive there so they where never colonized. AST and HGT are also uninhabited, their existing populations died off when trade collapsed. B life and F life swap habitability for mB (The existing setup is a bit weird). T and ST worlds have 180 PU Mardukian populations, all other have 60 PU for their most favorable race.


This would work if you don’t have race types from GG5.06, but a complete disaster if they do exist. Some of those are homeworlds for other race types.

I'm considering using number 1 outside this setup as it's got some interesting applications.


I like that one too.
Image
User avatar
Cralis
SDS Member
SDS Member
 
Posts: 11148
Joined: Tue 30 Jun 2009 19:27
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby SCC on Fri 09 Aug 2019 00:01

Cralis wrote:
SCC wrote:1) To make things a bit more interesting, and to give players an option for investment because colonization is basically off the table, IU are now a Sovereign Wealth Fund. This means that IU income is not included in GPV or and other calculations. TGI is now simply the Empires total PU count, a new EBID(T) is used for calculating CC and CFN size, and is the modified population income and trade income. IU income is now affected by all of REI, Governor and EVB.


I’m not sure what you’re trying to do here. IU that is affected by environmental modifiers but isn’t GPV? Maybe I’m just overly sleep deprived today, but I’m not seeing the logic for how this would work?

IU are stocks and other investments in the local economy under this rule, that's why they're affected by local economic conditions. As for not being part of the GPV, their already part of it in the normal income, it like if the US government brought a bunch of Apple stocks, any earnings the US makes of them are not added to the GDP because it's already accounted for.

Cralis wrote:
2) Players have a PCM of zero until they control two or more planets in a system for system pools, and until they have settlements in two or more planets for imperial wide. Until these conditions are meet they have no CFN and must provide imperial FT for any trade treaties. These FT earn normal leasing income on top of the trade boost.


So... PCM was really just for races that are just reaching into space. Once in space there will be civilian industrialization (for example: asteroid and moon miners) and haulers, space tourism, short term camps (think McMurdo Station but on a moon or asteroid), solar stations, etc. Not to mention shuttle and freighters to support all of that. AND a small number of freighters that will trade between adjacent populated systems that won’t count towards the CFN.

So even a new colony will have that kind of support move in, practically at the same time. It will be proportionate to the population size. But at full PCM.

These will be races just reaching into space, more to the point, and why I'm making this change, is that as they'll only have their homeworld there won't be any moonminers or the like for there to be shipping to or from.

Cralis wrote:
3) Empires with populations too small to support FAC won't suffer any penalties for lacking said FAC (This is for the 60 and 180 PU NPR's)


So you can have 30 RDS in a system with a single 1 PU colony and because it generates no FSP that’s ok? May I recommend that instead all populated systems have 1 FSP at minimum?

This is empires, not colonies. So an empire that consists of solely a 60 PU population will need an SA to conduct EL research and a TH to conduct trade. It's easier to say they are able to do these things despite lacking the FAC that would normally allow them then anything else.

Cralis wrote:
4) Players start with 1,000 PU, a single SYM and 1,000 MCr to spend on stuff.


Are they no longer going to have adjacent systems pre-explored?

I'd forgotten about that. I'm thinking they'll have the WP locations, but haven't probed the systems (Per Note a on Table U5A) plus there will be wrecks in orbit about their homeworlds)

Cralis wrote:
5) G, I, F, and V worlds are uninhabited because T Qt wouldn't be able to survive there so they where never colonized. AST and HGT are also uninhabited, their existing populations died off when trade collapsed. B life and F life swap habitability for mB (The existing setup is a bit weird). T and ST worlds have 180 PU Mardukian populations, all other have 60 PU for their most favorable race.


This would work if you don’t have race types from GG5.06, but a complete disaster if they do exist. Some of those are homeworlds for other race types.

T, ST, B, H, and F only inside the former empire, the single F race will get 5 mF with 200 PU each orbiting a single F world. SO the player with the F race will have a good place to put his first colony unlike the others, but won't be getting free colonists from population.
SCC
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
 
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri 08 Mar 2013 15:11

Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby Cralis on Tue 13 Aug 2019 00:56

SCC wrote:IU are stocks and other investments in the local economy under this rule, that's why they're affected by local economic conditions. As for not being part of the GPV, their already part of it in the normal income, it like if the US government brought a bunch of Apple stocks, any earnings the US makes of them are not added to the GDP because it's already accounted for.


IU don't really have a complete analog in real-life. There really isn't a government-funded investment that produces GPV and can be re-sold. The closest equivalent might be subsidies of industry, but the government doesn't sell their value in it. At best, the entity receiving the subsidy may have to repay it at a later date (think housing subsidies or startup subsidies).

The SDS has debated for several years on different ways to change IU. One of those directions was to change IU from "industrial units" to "infrastructure units"

Instead of providing income, there would be different kinds of IU that provide bonus infrastructure. Things like ground construction yards, facility supply points, intra-system CFN capacity, etc. The starting values would be reduced and then the player would have to purchase the different kinds of IU to boost them, with a limit of 1 IU per PU.

Then allowing the government to sell it makes more sense. The player would be selling ground shipyard capacity, facility supply infrastructure, intra-system CFN capacity, etc. Then there is also a downside in that selling infrastructure for MCr also reduces the local infrastructure.

We have pushed this to the NEXT update to SSF after the one we are working on right now, where we will be doing a much larger infrastructure update that includes a bunch of different things. But I figured that the explanation might help explain where I was coming from.

These will be races just reaching into space, more to the point, and why I'm making this change, is that as they'll only have their homeworld there won't be any moonminers or the like for there to be shipping to or from.


Oh! My apologies, I thought you were saying that all newly colonized systems would have a PCM of 0. Now that I go back and read it, I'm confused as to why I thought that.

This is empires, not colonies. So an empire that consists of solely a 60 PU population will need an SA to conduct EL research and a TH to conduct trade. It's easier to say they are able to do these things despite lacking the FAC that would normally allow them then anything else.


Completely unnecessary. AA.FAC.02 explains that exceeding the FSP limit only mean that adding new facilities costs more. Just copy K2.02.2 for all empires, and on the R&D facilities part just say there is a minimum of 1 (SA) and 1 (RDS). BOOM no more rules needed. :D

I'd forgotten about that. I'm thinking they'll have the WP locations, but haven't probed the systems (Per Note a on Table U5A) plus there will be wrecks in orbit about their homeworlds)


Oh nice touch! Maybe other wrecks in the system or a blasted facility or two on a moon? 8-) I really like that idea.

Cralis wrote:
5) G, I, F, and V worlds are uninhabited because T Qt wouldn't be able to survive there so they where never colonized. AST and HGT are also uninhabited, their existing populations died off when trade collapsed. B life and F life swap habitability for mB (The existing setup is a bit weird). T and ST worlds have 180 PU Mardukian populations, all other have 60 PU for their most favorable race.


This would work if you don’t have race types from GG5.06, but a complete disaster if they do exist. Some of those are homeworlds for other race types.


T, ST, B, H, and F only inside the former empire, the single F race will get 5 mF with 200 PU each orbiting a single F world. SO the player with the F race will have a good place to put his first colony unlike the others, but won't be getting free colonists from population.


So the G, I, and V race types won't be included? I mean you can do that, I was just trying to point out that if you were rolling randomly then that wouldn't matter if T Qt could be on G/I/F/V worlds because it wouldn't be a T race that occupied it.

It will be interesting to see how this works for your setup. Keep us updated!
Image
User avatar
Cralis
SDS Member
SDS Member
 
Posts: 11148
Joined: Tue 30 Jun 2009 19:27
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby SCC on Wed 14 Aug 2019 00:51

Cralis wrote:
These will be races just reaching into space, more to the point, and why I'm making this change, is that as they'll only have their homeworld there won't be any moonminers or the like for there to be shipping to or from.


Oh! My apologies, I thought you were saying that all newly colonized systems would have a PCM of 0. Now that I go back and read it, I'm confused as to why I thought that.

That is actually a possibility under a strict reading, but as any newly colonized system will have CFN service and you aren't likely to be moving stuff around the system just yet, I don't think it will be a problem.

Cralis wrote:
This is empires, not colonies. So an empire that consists of solely a 60 PU population will need an SA to conduct EL research and a TH to conduct trade. It's easier to say they are able to do these things despite lacking the FAC that would normally allow them then anything else.


Completely unnecessary. AA.FAC.02 explains that exceeding the FSP limit only mean that adding new facilities costs more. Just copy K2.02.2 for all empires, and on the R&D facilities part just say there is a minimum of 1 (SA) and 1 (RDS). BOOM no more rules needed. :D

Problem is they will get no TH, which is probably the second most important under these circumstances, and will be unable to build one. Also the circumstances would be against any of these worlds really having any Facilities

Cralis wrote:
I'd forgotten about that. I'm thinking they'll have the WP locations, but haven't probed the systems (Per Note a on Table U5A) plus there will be wrecks in orbit about their homeworlds)


Oh nice touch! Maybe other wrecks in the system or a blasted facility or two on a moon? 8-) I really like that idea.

Every planet will have a roll for orbiting wrecks, which will have something like 5 or 10 points of numerical precision damage to explain why they where abandoned

Cralis wrote:So the G, I, and V race types won't be included? I mean you can do that, I was just trying to point out that if you were rolling randomly then that wouldn't matter if T Qt could be on G/I/F/V worlds because it wouldn't be a T race that occupied it.

I don't think the empire is really the sort to use slave troops.
SCC
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
 
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri 08 Mar 2013 15:11

Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby Cralis on Wed 14 Aug 2019 02:59

SCC wrote:Problem is they will get no TH, which is probably the second most important under these circumstances, and will be unable to build one. Also the circumstances would be against any of these worlds really having any Facilities


So add 1 TH as a starting facility for your game. Given that the new empires ised to be part of the Mardukan empire, it would make sense for each to have one.
Image
User avatar
Cralis
SDS Member
SDS Member
 
Posts: 11148
Joined: Tue 30 Jun 2009 19:27
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby SCC on Wed 14 Aug 2019 03:29

Cralis wrote:
SCC wrote:Problem is they will get no TH, which is probably the second most important under these circumstances, and will be unable to build one. Also the circumstances would be against any of these worlds really having any Facilities


So add 1 TH as a starting facility for your game. Given that the new empires ised to be part of the Mardukan empire, it would make sense for each to have one.

I'm kind-of assuming that they where Slave races, per the rules, and as such didn't need TH (or any other Facilities) and in fact likely weren't allowed to build them. And even if they did have them they would likely have been destroyed in the civil war that proceeded the game.

There's also the issue that this will give the players a huge number of FAC as they gobble up these minors players.
SCC
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
 
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri 08 Mar 2013 15:11

Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby Cralis on Wed 14 Aug 2019 16:46

SCC wrote:I'm kind-of assuming that they where Slave races, per the rules, and as such didn't need TH (or any other Facilities) and in fact likely weren't allowed to build them. And even if they did have them they would likely have been destroyed in the civil war that proceeded the game.


Spoiler alert! The next version of SSF is going to require TH for collecting incomes from conquered races. It represents the fact that your empire will have to setup some infrastructure to consume their income (goods and/or services).

There's also the issue that this will give the players a huge number of FAC as they gobble up these minors players.


In the beginning that will be an issue... but as their populations start to grow it will become less. And remember, that if you conquer the other guy and you really don't want his facilities, you can scrap them.
Image
User avatar
Cralis
SDS Member
SDS Member
 
Posts: 11148
Joined: Tue 30 Jun 2009 19:27
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby SCC on Thu 15 Aug 2019 04:02

Cralis wrote:
SCC wrote:There's also the issue that this will give the players a huge number of FAC as they gobble up these minors players.


In the beginning that will be an issue... but as their populations start to grow it will become less. And remember, that if you conquer the other guy and you really don't want his facilities, you can scrap them.

Still makes them free FAC or cash, this would put 1 each of CAP/ICC, SA, RDS, TH, QTF, and PSF on each planet.

And slightly on this subject, I've decided to waive the x cost in RP for populations below 500 PU as this is the point at which EL RP start having a higher y cost then x, at these really small populations 15 EL RP, the max any race can purchase due to 'forced assistance (Scavenging wrecks/records) a population of 60 PU has an x cost of 150 and and y cost of 9, with total income of 60.
SCC
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
 
Posts: 806
Joined: Fri 08 Mar 2013 15:11

Re: DD1.03 Mardukan Rebellion Questions

Postby Cralis on Thu 15 Aug 2019 11:44

SCC wrote:
Cralis wrote:
SCC wrote:There's also the issue that this will give the players a huge number of FAC as they gobble up these minors players.


In the beginning that will be an issue... but as their populations start to grow it will become less. And remember, that if you conquer the other guy and you really don't want his facilities, you can scrap them.

Still makes them free FAC or cash, this would put 1 each of CAP/ICC, SA, RDS, TH, QTF, and PSF on each planet.


Right. If you are seeing it as free Facilities (or the scrapped equivalent...which isn't much) when conquered... well, conquered. The cost of conquering the empire will be much higher than what they get out of the previous empire's facilities. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

And slightly on this subject, I've decided to waive the x cost in RP for populations below 500 PU as this is the point at which EL RP start having a higher y cost then x, at these really small populations 15 EL RP, the max any race can purchase due to 'forced assistance (Scavenging wrecks/records) a population of 60 PU has an x cost of 150 and and y cost of 9, with total income of 60.


Yeah... I could see the cost being an issue. Maybe just waive it for the homeworlds? In some ways that could be explained as the race having previously been a higher EL, or having been exposed for so long to higher EL, that it doesn't take them as much to regain or rediscover it.
Image
User avatar
Cralis
SDS Member
SDS Member
 
Posts: 11148
Joined: Tue 30 Jun 2009 19:27
Location: Oregon, USA

Previous

Return to Solar Starfire

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron