Announcing SOLAR STARFIRE

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Re: Announcing SOLAR STARFIRE

Postby Dawn Falcon on Wed 01 Feb 2012 15:03

This is what an email announce list or RSS feed is good for :P

But yes, *interested*

Not right now because I just took on yet another university course (yes, I teach. Games.) but soon-ish :)
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Re: Announcing SOLAR STARFIRE

Postby Tregonsee on Thu 02 Feb 2012 00:12

Cralis wrote:Today turned out to not as productive as I had hoped, family stuff interfered a bit. But I'm working on a "What Changed? FAQ", the new Quick Start Rules that Procyon helped me do a rough draft...



Any chance we can see some of this FAQ so we have an idea what has changed? Especially for those of us who have not used Ultra rules...
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Re: Announcing SOLAR STARFIRE

Postby Cralis on Thu 02 Feb 2012 00:33

Tregonsee wrote:
Cralis wrote:Today turned out to not as productive as I had hoped, family stuff interfered a bit. But I'm working on a "What Changed? FAQ", the new Quick Start Rules that Procyon helped me do a rough draft...



Any chance we can see some of this FAQ so we have an idea what has changed? Especially for those of us who have not used Ultra rules...


The link to the FAQ is in the Solar Starfire Page. http://www.starfiredesign.com/starfire/solar/index.php
If you read the announcement there are other links as well.
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Re: Announcing SOLAR STARFIRE

Postby godsgopher on Mon 06 Feb 2012 02:28

I just got mine!

Have you got yours?
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Re: Announcing SOLAR STARFIRE

Postby rincewind on Mon 05 Mar 2012 18:20

Haven't got the money, i only get seven dollars a month of allowance. :(
If you can't get rid off it by sending the Three Stooges over to it's side, then don't bother with anything else. It's indestructible.

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Re: Announcing SOLAR STARFIRE

Postby wievil on Mon 30 Apr 2012 15:38

I have a rules question. Not a "in this specific rule can you explain to me how this works" but more of a general question about smallcraft.

Small craft sensor ranges go up as the generation goes up. The minimum combat range is 9 tH unless half of the base sensor range is larger than 9 tH. So by the time you get to something like the GBy at SL 50 the Base sensor range is 90 tH and therefore combat range is 45 tH. But! Combat with smallcraft and against smallcraft and AP, no matter the SL you're talking about, still only takes place between 0 tH and 9tH. (Slightly longer from PDC's.) Any idea if that is going to change like the change that is seen in later generations of weapon ranges for large ships?

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Re: Announcing SOLAR STARFIRE

Postby Cralis on Mon 30 Apr 2012 20:31

wievil wrote:I have a rules question. Not a "in this specific rule can you explain to me how this works" but more of a general question about smallcraft.

Small craft sensor ranges go up as the generation goes up. The minimum combat range is 9 tH unless half of the base sensor range is larger than 9 tH. So by the time you get to something like the GBy at SL 50 the Base sensor range is 90 tH and therefore combat range is 45 tH. But! Combat with smallcraft and against smallcraft and AP, no matter the SL you're talking about, still only takes place between 0 tH and 9tH. (Slightly longer from PDC's.) Any idea if that is going to change like the change that is seen in later generations of weapon ranges for large ships?


Good question. In ULTRA, Marvin had 9tH as the maximum limit for squadrons in order to balance them. The problem, of course, is that as you creep up through SL15+, the ranges that large units can attack squadrons begins to exceed 9tH.

As the background story reaches that point, we intend to re-visit the squadron ranges and see if a simple range expansion (like +1 to all range categories) would work. We don't want to simply redo the ranges because then it would create an extra table and we try to avoid the need for more tables.
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Re: Announcing SOLAR STARFIRE

Postby mcb1968 on Sat 15 Jun 2013 21:55

It looks like you are still taking the approach of presenting Starfire as an integrated campaign/tactical system. I backed away from the game for years because it was presented in this format. I would sooner buy products featuring linked campaigns or scenarios within a good backstory than a monster campaign game. Market wise, tactical games have a broader reach than empire building games. Look at the plethora of tactical starship games that have done fairly well. The campaign system for them (where there is one) is distinct from the tactical game.

Starfire's strengths are fast play and easy ship design which allows players to tweak ships fairly easily. There is a good pool for players who will take the plunge on this. Even within a linked campaign game there is room to allow players to build and deploy variants on existing ship designs without getting bogged down into the minutiae of budgets and such. The pool of players who have the time and inclination to do the accounting and production calcs to run an empire is way smaller and many of them are going to be looking more for a high level approach such as Twilight Imperium or Space Empires 4x or even Federation and Empire.

Steven Cole's genius in presenting the escalating tech of ISW1 and ISW2 in the original Starfire as a series of tactical battles, was that it provided not only a good, if loose back story, but also a programmed instruction approach to learning the game. SF 2 continued this tradition, but it seems to have been lost with 4E and follow on editions. There were several operational campaigns presented in NEXUS that clearly showed how this type of approach could fit into the Starfire experience.

I think Marvin assumed that because all the folks that were "involved" in the Starfire community at the time he took the game over were campaign aficionados, that this was the strongest market for the game. I can tell you that for my part, this is certainly not the case, and I think there may be many potential players and customers out there that would respond better to a more tactical approach to the game.
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Re: Announcing SOLAR STARFIRE

Postby mcb1968 on Sat 15 Jun 2013 22:00

Starfire is great for what it is, a fast play set of rules that lets folks build and field their own ships. It is GREAT for smaller operational type campaigns. I actually used the SFB P/F campaign game as an engine for a Starfire Destroyer flotilla campaign.

The guys loved it! They got to tweak their DD designs within certain pre defined racial and tech parameters and received new hulls on a regular production basis. No tech research, no credit or supply chain accounting. Two years later they are still talking about it.
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Re: Announcing SOLAR STARFIRE

Postby Cralis on Sun 16 Jun 2013 00:24

mcb1968 wrote:It looks like you are still taking the approach of presenting Starfire as an integrated campaign/tactical system.


This was actually because the customers asked for it. After GSF they didn't want to pay more money for more books when one could contain both. The is ESPECIALLY true in digital format since you can print only the parts you want.

The pool of players who have the time and inclination to do the accounting and production calcs to run an empire is way smaller and many of them are going to be looking more for a high level approach such as Twilight Imperium or Space Empires 4x or even Federation and Empire.


The first observation is true for ALL wargames. That is why tabletop wargaming has been on the decline for 20 years. However, your second observation has already been... observed. :)

Steven Cole's genius in presenting the escalating tech of ISW1 and ISW2 in the original Starfire


As far as I know, Steven Cole had nothing to do with Starfire past the first edition.

as a series of tactical battles, was that it provided not only a good, if loose back story, but also a programmed instruction approach to learning the game. SF 2 continued this tradition, but it seems to have been lost with 4E and follow on editions. There were several operational campaigns presented in NEXUS that clearly showed how this type of approach could fit into the Starfire experience.

I think Marvin assumed that because all the folks that were "involved" in the Starfire community at the time he took the game over were campaign aficionados, that this was the strongest market for the game. I can tell you that for my part, this is certainly not the case, and I think there may be many potential players and customers out there that would respond better to a more tactical approach to the game.


STARFIRE has a much longer, more convoluted history. Suffice it to say that when GALACTIC STARFIRE was made the intention was to build more support for player vs. player and to leave the CLASSIC STARFIRE history behind.

That's why we have started a new history for SOLAR STARFIRE. Eventually we'll be where you are talking about, but we aren't quite there yet.
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