Z Datagroup Sizes

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Re: Z Datagroup Sizes

Postby Cralis on Thu 27 Jul 2017 13:05

I'm definitely not confused. I've actually served in an artillery unit in the communications capacity and seen how the computerized targeting systems work. Even taking the human element out of the loop, it takes time. I've actually been in exercises where they calculated TOT bombardments. And a lot goes into them that a starship will never need...

I think a more apt comparison would be ship-to-ship datalink in the Navy. Only the ships are moving 1000 miles per second. Missiles are generally fire and forget so TOT coordination is easier, especially in the case of a guided missile that can control its speed. But imagine that the ships have to coordinate gunnery fire. Not only do the firing solutions change from second-to-second, but you have a need to coordinate your fire so you can increase your chances of bracketing and hitting your target. While moving 1000 miles per second, while your enemy is also moving at 1000 miles per second. And can both stop and start in a given second, or manuever. What is that mathematical model called? A Monte Carlo simulation?

Guided munitions are easy. They control themselves, can probably network with their flight mates, and only need to worry about coordinating to minimize the effectiveness of defenses and to avoid fraticiding other incoming munitions in their flight.

Coordinating the fire of beams and other non-guided weapons to maximize coverage to increase your chances to-hit AND attempt to make those hits arrive in a short period of time is not easy. And again, that doesn't even begin to consider latency.
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Re: Z Datagroup Sizes

Postby SCC on Thu 27 Jul 2017 22:27

Cralis, given how salvo's work I think we have to assume that units perform TOT calculations 'for free' instanantously
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Re: Z Datagroup Sizes

Postby Cralis on Sun 30 Jul 2017 02:24

SCC wrote:Cralis, given how salvo's work I think we have to assume that units perform TOT calculations 'for free' instanantously


Why do you say that?
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Re: Z Datagroup Sizes

Postby coldsteel on Tue 01 Aug 2017 17:34

I think he means each individual ship, Matt...

But, to process TOT for multiple targets, you need Multiplex tracking...
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Re: Z Datagroup Sizes

Postby SCC on Wed 02 Aug 2017 03:25

Yes, that's my point, my understanding is that all missiles in a single volley arrive at the same time, so clearly the launching ship must be doing ToT calculations.
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Re: Z Datagroup Sizes

Postby Cralis on Wed 02 Aug 2017 08:41

By "the same time", you mean "over the course of a 30 second window that comprises a tactical turn", yes?

The fact that we have but a single combat phase is an artifact of the simplified mechanics. In fact, salvoes (multi-ROF fire) show that your assumption must be incorrect since point defense engages each salvo separately (i.e. not at the same exact moment in time).
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Re: Z Datagroup Sizes

Postby SCC on Wed 02 Aug 2017 15:09

Cralis, a single D system can only shoot down one missile per Salvo, but otherwise it can destroy an unlimited number of missiles a turn, that says that missiles in a Salvo are grouped together in some way.
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Re: Z Datagroup Sizes

Postby Cralis on Fri 04 Aug 2017 00:59

SCC wrote:Cralis, a single D system can only shoot down one missile per Salvo, but otherwise it can destroy an unlimited number of missiles a turn, that says that missiles in a Salvo are grouped together in some way.


That says more about the sacrifices we make for simplicity then it does about capability. Given that each salvo must attack the target at a separate time unit (whether that is seconds, fractions of a second, whatever), and there is only 30 seconds in a tactical turn; there must be a finite number of salvos that a D could realistically engage.

And if we were being that pedantic, given enough salvos then some must arrive at the same time and only one of them could be engaged. Assuming that a single D system is only a single mount, which we don't assume.

But we ignore all of that for simplicity.
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