Squadron Bay question and maybe house rule opinions

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Squadron Bay question and maybe house rule opinions

Postby AlexanderKnight on Mon 06 Aug 2018 17:41

So, as a starting point, I enjoy the idea of hybrid warship/carrier units, like the Hydrans of Star Fleet Battles and the KON. As such, the requirements for mounting a single squadron on a ship are too harsh for me. (Launch and Hanger bay required)

So, first a question: Can the Squadron Maintenance installation (SqnM) rearm, refuel, and recharge life support for a squadron in a (BL)?

If the answer is no, what would be the effect of giving every starship a free (BL) for every full 30 HS?
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Re: Squadron Bay question and maybe house rule opinions

Postby Whitecold on Mon 06 Aug 2018 23:00

(BL) cannot store any craft in the first place, so Squadron maintenance cannot do anything. They are only the launchers.
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Re: Squadron Bay question and maybe house rule opinions

Postby AlexanderKnight on Mon 06 Aug 2018 23:52

BL.02 Emergency Landing says otherwise.
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Re: Squadron Bay question and maybe house rule opinions

Postby LesMasters on Tue 07 Aug 2018 02:26

But...

(from BL.02): "...They cannot be rearmed, refueled, or repaired, and the BL cannot be used until the smcft are re-launched. Each BL can only hold one smcft or squadron." In other words, (BL) can only store the extra smcft (in the condition in which they landed) until they can be offloaded to another facility or, if they retain any fighting capacity, sent back into combat.

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Re: Squadron Bay question and maybe house rule opinions

Postby AlexanderKnight on Tue 07 Aug 2018 03:13

Right, which is why I'm wondering if the (Sqm) can rearm and refuel a squadron in the (BL). You're saying that's not the case?
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Re: Squadron Bay question and maybe house rule opinions

Postby LesMasters on Tue 07 Aug 2018 05:39

Yeah - that's how I would interpret the rules. No ammo, no petrol, no spanners. You might be able to give the windows a wash down with soapy water. ;)

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Re: Squadron Bay question and maybe house rule opinions

Postby coldsteel on Tue 07 Aug 2018 08:55

LesMasters wrote:Yeah - that's how I would interpret the rules. No ammo, no petrol, no spanners. You might be able to give the windows a wash down with soapy water. ;)

Les


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civilian: 4 'FTx' (made FT out of 40K Imp Guard flamer tanks)
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Re: Squadron Bay question and maybe house rule opinions

Postby LesMasters on Tue 07 Aug 2018 11:52

On a more serious note, this rule against rearming, refuelling and repairing smallcraft in a launch bay is probably intended to emphasise the fact that this use of (BL) to "store" homeless strays is an emergency situation, and the fact that you have some hard choices to make: either abandon any craft (and their crews) in excess of your surviving carrying capacity, or block (or at least seriously impede) the relaunch of any craft you do have in hangar bays (and which can be rearmed, etc.).

You could use a house rule which modifies (or even removes) BL.02. I can't see a point to doing the latter, since this is not meant to be a "normal" situation. Modifying it, however, brings a whole new set of problems, because you would still need to ensure that there were significant penalties involved: for example, restricting the weapon types that can be rearmed/reloaded, how much fuel/life support you could provide, and what kind of repairs could be made (and how fragile they should be).

One thing that does come to mind. is it legal to do this: a carrier has its full complement of fighters before the start of combat (armed, etc, doesn't matter, as they are housed in their bays); an additional squadron, already fully armed and fuelled, is then lodged in each of the launch bays - which, of course, would have to be the first squadrons launched into combat? I am assuming there may be game penalties for this kind of behaviour (and, possibly, polite invitations to a meeting in a dark alleyway).

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Re: Squadron Bay question and maybe house rule opinions

Postby Cralis on Wed 08 Aug 2018 17:37

AlexanderKnight wrote:So, as a starting point, I enjoy the idea of hybrid warship/carrier units, like the Hydrans of Star Fleet Battles and the KON. As such, the requirements for mounting a single squadron on a ship are too harsh for me. (Launch and Hanger bay required)


BL are not necessary for every hangar. BL determine how many squadrons you can launch or land at the same time. A dedicated carrier may have many BL so it can launch or land many squadrons at once. But a hybrid like you are talking about only needs 1 BL. Hangars require BL to launch pr land period. (AA.B?.01)

And you can always build them out of fast hulls and avoid the bay limitation altogether.

So, first a question: Can the Squadron Maintenance installation (SqnM) rearm, refuel, and recharge life support for a squadron in a (BL)?


First, the SqnM only repairs squadrons. It has nothing to do with rearming and refueling. That is a function of the hangar. Nothing can rearm, refuel, or repair a craft stranded in the space of a BL.

If the answer is no, what would be the effect of giving every starship a free (BL) for every full 30 HS?


At that point, why bother with BL? A guideline we try to use is that if a system is automatically used, and there is not a necessary reason to know where or how many there are, why have it at all? Just make it a feature of the hull.

We limit BL for three reasons:
1. The number of BL determines the speed at which you can land or launch squadrons, AP, etc.;
2. If there was no limit to BL on a regular hull, there would be little point to the fast hull;
and 3. The realistic reason that a regular hull has less surface area for a bay than a fast hull.

AlexanderKnight wrote:Right, which is why I'm wondering if the (Sqm) can rearm and refuel a squadron in the (BL). You're saying that's not the case?


Yes. SqnM cannot rearm or refuel anything, anywhere.

LesMasters wrote:On a more serious note, this rule against rearming, refuelling and repairing smallcraft in a launch bay is probably intended to emphasise the fact that this use of (BL) to "store" homeless strays is an emergency situation, and the fact that you have some hard choices to make: either abandon any craft (and their crews) in excess of your surviving carrying capacity, or block (or at least seriously impede) the relaunch of any craft you do have in hangar bays (and which can be rearmed, etc.).


Exactly. Think about the launch rails on a modern aircraft carrier. If you park jets on top of the launch rails, you won’t be able launch any aircraft from the carrier. If a second aircraft carrier sinks, you can choose to let some of the remaining aircraft land and sit topside. But it will interfere with your ability to land and launch your own aircraft.

And yes, I realize that a flattop carrier can roll weapons and to any aircraft sitting on the flattop. This is not a perfect analogy. The game reason we don’t allow BL to have those functions is because nobody would ever build a hangar... you wouldn’t need them.

One thing that does come to mind. is it legal to do this: a carrier has its full complement of fighters before the start of combat (armed, etc, doesn't matter, as they are housed in their bays); an additional squadron, already fully armed and fuelled, is then lodged in each of the launch bays - which, of course, would have to be the first squadrons launched into combat? I am assuming there may be game penalties for this kind of behaviour (and, possibly, polite invitations to a meeting in a dark alleyway).


In Solar Starfire, the squadron hangars are NOT launch bays. That is in Ultra Starfire.

G1.01.1 covers the situation you are describing.
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Re: Squadron Bay question and maybe house rule opinions

Postby LesMasters on Thu 09 Aug 2018 07:59

Hi, Cralis

I should have written (BL) rather than "launch bay" (though that is what they are called in the Solar rules). In other words, the extra squadron(s) would be carried in the same way as those landed due to lack of capacity elsewhere. BL.02 does imply that these additional craft are held in the (BL) itself.

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