Population for Sensors

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Population for Sensors

Postby SDTroll on Sat 23 May 2020 11:22

How much do people put population on planets for the sensor effects? It seems like the range is fairly small, especially early. Is it worth the cost to place them on bad environments?
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Re: Population for Sensors

Postby coldsteel on Sat 23 May 2020 13:46

SDTroll wrote:How much do people put population on planets for the sensor effects? It seems like the range is fairly small, especially early. Is it worth the cost to place them on bad environments?


Worth the ROI for income...
TFN: 1 BB, 2 BC, 4 CA, 2 CL, 11 DD
RPSA: 1 BC, 2 CV, 4 CA, 2 CL, 8 DD
civilian: 4 'FTx' (made FT out of 40K Imp Guard flamer tanks), 2 FTx (old sculpts)
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Re: Population for Sensors

Postby Cralis on Sat 23 May 2020 13:58

Spoiler alert!
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And in the next version of Solar Starfire, you will only need a population large enough to generate FSP for an Planetary Sensor Facility (Y) or a Deep Space Sensor Array (Yc). We recognized that this was one of the purposes that empires will put a population out on the fringes of their empire, and much like the massive radar stations we have in Alaska and Canada with only enough population to support a base; we wanted to allow players to build the same kind of military outposts.
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Re: Population for Sensors

Postby SDTroll on Sat 23 May 2020 16:04

I'm specifically referring to when it isn't worth it for ROI, like an extreme planet. According to D5.03 any population of 1-60 PU has a sensor rate equal to the best sensor available, I'm just wondering if people think this is worth taking advantage of. It seems like the sensors are very short ranged even with early Yc, so is it worth emplacing a small amount of people at a large cost with a terrible ROI for the sensor ability? At the beginning of the game your people would have a sensor range of 60 tH, which seems like a total waste of MCr, but I'm often misunderstanding things. Is there a good reason to do it?
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Re: Population for Sensors

Postby SDTroll on Sat 23 May 2020 16:10

Cralis wrote:Spoiler alert!
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

And in the next version of Solar Starfire, you will only need a population large enough to generate FSP for an Planetary Sensor Facility (Y) or a Deep Space Sensor Array (Yc). We recognized that this was one of the purposes that empires will put a population out on the fringes of their empire, and much like the massive radar stations we have in Alaska and Canada with only enough population to support a base; we wanted to allow players to build the same kind of military outposts.


I know the numbers probably aren't there yet, but this sounds like it would make it even less worth it, because you have to build a facility and use up system facility points to get the sensors. Until you have some hefty sensor tech will it be worth it? I'm assuming Population would lose its automatic sensors.
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Re: Population for Sensors

Postby Cralis on Tue 26 May 2020 03:41

SDTroll wrote:I know the numbers probably aren't there yet, but this sounds like it would make it even less worth it, because you have to build a facility and use up system facility points to get the sensors.


Probably 0.5 FSP each, or somewhere in that neighborhood.

What else are you going to build on a frontier outpost? Most of the facilities that you'd rather build have requirements that a colony or even settlement cannot provide for.

Until you have some hefty sensor tech will it be worth it? I'm assuming Population would lose its automatic sensors.


No, they won't lose their automatic sensors. The facilities are independent of what the population will use. And they will provide the maximum Y or Yc (depending upon which you built), which isn't available to those smaller populations in any other form.
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Re: Population for Sensors

Postby SDTroll on Tue 26 May 2020 07:19

Cralis wrote:
SDTroll wrote:I know the numbers probably aren't there yet, but this sounds like it would make it even less worth it, because you have to build a facility and use up system facility points to get the sensors.


Probably 0.5 FSP each, or somewhere in that neighborhood.

What else are you going to build on a frontier outpost? Most of the facilities that you'd rather build have requirements that a colony or even settlement cannot provide for.

Until you have some hefty sensor tech will it be worth it? I'm assuming Population would lose its automatic sensors.


No, they won't lose their automatic sensors. The facilities are independent of what the population will use. And they will provide the maximum Y or Yc (depending upon which you built), which isn't available to those smaller populations in any other form.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding D5.03.1.6 it says the population gets the best sensors available. Does that not include Y or Yc? I assumed those would be the best sensors. So if I have researched Yca, all my populations would have sensors based on Yca and their PU, so from base Yca to 300% Yca.
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Re: Population for Sensors

Postby Cralis on Tue 26 May 2020 11:17

SDTroll wrote:Maybe I'm misunderstanding D5.03.1.6 it says the population gets the best sensors available. Does that not include Y or Yc? I assumed those would be the best sensors. So if I have researched Yca, all my populations would have sensors based on Yca and their PU, so from base Yca to 300% Yca.


Ok my apologies, I needed to go back and read it and my notes to see what the issue is. The issue is that under the current version, D5.03.1.6 does not specify what "best sensors available" means. Does that mean standard sensors? Y? Yc when available?

Under Ultra Starfire and earlier versions all populations got the best Y and Yc at all times. If I'm recalling correctly, in Ultra the Medium, Large, and VLarge populations had a bonus to sensor range. But a lowly colony would have the best military sensors from day 1.

So right now that's how it works under SSF-201307

In the next version we are defining what "the best sensors available" means. Smaller populations will have standard sensors. Settlement and Small have Y. Medium and larger populations will have Y/Yc.

If you want to have the best military sensors at your outer fringe outposts and colonies, then you'll have to build sensor facilities to add it.

Does that make more sense now?
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Re: Population for Sensors

Postby SDTroll on Tue 26 May 2020 12:24

Cralis wrote:
Does that make more sense now?


Absolutely, thank you.

So back to my original question, given the short range of the sensors early in the SL, is it worth spending the money to colonize a moon or planet with a bad ROI to get the sensor effects? At the start of the game, your colony has a range of 60 tH. That seems pretty bad for the cost. Even with Yca, the range is only 1 sH. I'm wondering if people build little outposts for that effect, like in the Ernie's Earthling Empire tutorial.
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Re: Population for Sensors

Postby Cralis on Wed 27 May 2020 15:49

SDTroll wrote:So back to my original question, given the short range of the sensors early in the SL, is it worth spending the money to colonize a moon or planet with a bad ROI to get the sensor effects?


It really depends upon how badly you want a presence. Colonizing gives you a claim to the system, a forward operating base with it's own (admittedly meager) supply of MCr, and some sensor range. It does obviously get a lot better as you develop better sensors.

At the start of the game, your colony has a range of 60 tH. That seems pretty bad for the cost. Even with Yca, the range is only 1 sH. I'm wondering if people build little outposts for that effect, like in the Ernie's Earthling Empire tutorial.


I've done it before, but I did that on a planet in the inner system. It seems like it would have absolutely no value say... on Pluto. But on Mars? Probably a decent change of crossing paths with others flying around your system.
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