New Technology

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New Technology

Postby TerryTigre on Sat 14 Jul 2012 14:11

Omnitron.

This is both a very advanced system, and one that could be in common use in 10 years...

Think of an Omnitron as an 3D printer, with an erase function as well. The idea is to 'print' the required starship system as needed, and erase it when it is no longer needed. This would allow one Omnitron to perform as another system, but only as one system at the time.

Code: Select all
SL   Code   Cost    HS   Notes
5    Oma    100      5    Acts as 1 HS of any industrial system(Ind1 or Ind2)
10   Omb    110     4.5   Acts as 1 HS of any SL  5 or lower system
15   Ome    120      4    Acts as 1 HS of any SL  10 or lower system
20   Omi    130     3.5   Acts as 1 HS of any SL  15 or lower system
25   Omm    140      3    Acts as 1 HS of any SL  20 or lower system
30   Omn    150     2.5   Acts as 1 HS of any SL  25 or lower system
35   Omo    160      2    Acts as 1 HS of any SL  30 or lower system
40   Omq    140      2    Acts as 1 HS of any SL  35 or lower system
45   Oms    120      2    Acts as 1 HS of any SL  40 or lower system
50   Omu    100      2    Acts as 1 HS of any SL  45 or lower system


The budget for making new systems is one half the cost of the Omnitron. Acting as another system subracts from the budget, and erasing that system recovers 90% of the cost of that system. To restore the full budget the Omnitron needs additional Mcr to make up the difference, this is done at the same time as paying maintenance for the ship. Note that you never need to supply additional Mcr to an Omnitron if you dont want to, but eventually the Omnitron can no longer change into another system. Note that if you keep the Omnitron operating as only one system it doesnt cost anything extra, unless the system gets destroyed and needs to be reprinted.

Systems that are too expensive for the budget can still be made, but then multiple Omnitrons are needed to make 1 system. Likewise, systems larger than 1 HS need multiple Omnitrons working together.

One Omnitron can only make 1 type of system. However with systems smaller than 1 HS one Omnitron might make multiple identical systems, up to 1 HS total. Note that the printed system is still considered to be a part of the HS of the Omnitron, so printed systems dont make the ship larger.

It takes one hour to erase and/or print a system. During that time both the old and the new system dont work.

A printed system is empty. This means that if you print a missile launcher it has no missiles until it gets ammo from a magazine, or other source. Likewise printing a magazine doesnt give you ammo, but it allows you to store ammo.

Printed shields are added to the regular shields. Printed armor is added to the regular armor. Printed Datalink is added after the armor. In all other cases the printed system appears just before the Omnitron. Note that an Omnitron usually is 2 HTK, one hit for the system, and one hit for the omnitron itself. If the printed system is destroyed, only 50% of the budget can be recovered. Note that shields regenerate over time, so they are never counted as destroyed. Also note that printed armor acts almost as shields in this regard, as it can be reprinted after an hour. Likewise I engines that fail can be reprinted after 1 hour, so the strategic speed of a starship can be increased for a longer period of time.

Some uses:
-Regenerating armor.
-add an X when the system needs to be surveyed.
-Switch to close range weapons for a warp point assault.
-Add a strategic sensor then print a combat system after the enemy has been found.
Status: 26 types of tech system. Working on fleet tactics. Added b generation weapons, including G, Gb. Possible to give Ships Movement Orders. Working on SysGenV2
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Re: New Technology

Postby Vandervecken on Sat 14 Jul 2012 15:09

If I hadn't read an article about 3D Printing just 2 to 3 months ago, I'd have said that this is too powerful and too Sci-Fi to become a real ship system. Now, I wonder if just around the corner, we here on the real world will be seeing somethink like this on a massive scale in just a decade. Without play-testing it, just eyeballing your stats, I have to say I like what I see, the trade-off in spaces for flexibility in design, seems about right. A very 'Cool Idea', Wim; whether it can be added to my campaign, (or core, or optional) someday or not !!

A spectacular way to open this sub-forum up!
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Re: New Technology

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Sat 14 Jul 2012 19:48

I like this a a ground based system. Think of it as a function of a players IUs. In times of war you can have the factories print the systems for PDC's with the knowledge that they are temporary facilities. It would let a player facing invasion to quickly ramp up the defenses of an important system. Say each IU can produce 1 HS of printed systems but those systems get recycled at the end of the strategic turn.
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Re: New Technology

Postby TerryTigre on Tue 24 Jul 2012 17:33

More new technology:

Area Shield
These project a shield with a large radius, in effect protecting all things in the same tactical hex.
Multiple ships each generating area shields combine to generate one stronger area shield.

Note that enemy units in the same hex are also protected, from fire outside the hex.

Friendly and enemy area shields in the same hex combine.

Note also that area shields do not protect against enemy weapons fired from the same hex.

Area Shields can be skipped by weapons that skip shields, each area shield counting as one regular shield.

Area shields regenerate at the same speed as regular shields.

All Area Shields must be mounted as first system type in the unit, before regular shields. Even if Shield layering is not in effect, units can still mount area shields and regular shields. The generation of area shields can be different from the generation of regular shields aboard the same unit.

PDC/AF/SS Core all can mount area shields, and they protect against fire from outside that tactical hex.
Note that all pdc area shields regardless of their tactical zone contribute to the single area shield around the planet.
Also note that all these PDC area shields are useless once a ship gets to the same tactical hex as the planet.
Likewise, area shields of landed ships still can operate.

Only a single tactical hex is protected. Should there be a terrain feature that occupies multiple tactical hexes, like a sun/large planet/monster etc, then only the part of the tactical hex that is not occupied by that terrain feature is protected.

Code: Select all
SL   Code   Cost   Space
6    Sa       6       2
10   Sa1      9    1 1/3
14   Sa2     12       1
18   Sa3     15      2/3
22   Sa4     18      1/2
26   Sa5     21      2/5
30   Sa6     24      1/3
35   Sa7     27      2/7
40   Sa8     30      1/4
45   Sa9     33      2/9
50   Sa10    36      1/5



Tactical Notes:
Area shields are meant to protect fleets. Larger fleets are protected more. On the other claw, the area shields cost more and have more HS so the fleet as a whole is less protected, if all shields were to be destroyed.

What the system does is to keep weaker ships in action longer.

Counters against area shields are either conventional pounding, or close to range zero.
Last edited by TerryTigre on Tue 24 Jul 2012 18:10, edited 2 times in total.
Status: 26 types of tech system. Working on fleet tactics. Added b generation weapons, including G, Gb. Possible to give Ships Movement Orders. Working on SysGenV2
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Re: New Technology

Postby TerryTigre on Tue 24 Jul 2012 17:44

More new technology:

Planetary Shields.

Planetary shields do function in the atmosphere/near a planet and are (aside from the cost) otherwise identical to regular shields.

Planetary Shields regenerate at the same speed as regular shields.

AF/PDC can mount planetary shields. SS core cant mount planetary shields, as only part of the unit can be covered.

Code: Select all
SL   Code   Cost   Space
1    Sg       8       1
5    Sg1     12      2/3
9    Sg2     16      1/2
13   Sg3     20      1/3
17   Sg4     24      1/4
21   Sg5     28      1/5
25   Sg6     32      1/6
30   Sg7     36      1/7
35   Sg8     40      1/8
40   Sg9     44      1/9
45   Sg10    48      1/10
Status: 26 types of tech system. Working on fleet tactics. Added b generation weapons, including G, Gb. Possible to give Ships Movement Orders. Working on SysGenV2
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Re: New Technology

Postby procyon on Tue 24 Jul 2012 20:47

My biggest issue with the area shield is the size in HS.

Even at 'a' gen, if you plan on having three ships in the same place you would be better off to mount the area shields. With no real detriment. Most fleets are bigger than three.

It also tends to push the ESF problem the wrong way in my opinion. It would be a real big stimulator to just put all you ships into one hex and leave it that way. The more you pack in - the more invulnerable you become. When you reach the thousands even skipping weapons will fail.

Perhaps a max value the area shield could acheive in one hex. Perhaps the 'a' has a limit of 10. So no matter how many ships you put in a hex - the area shield only gets to have a 10 strength. The rest automatically shuts down and will need reset. This would tend to encourage folks to break up the formations and manuever.

Or maybe it could be linked to Z and only those ships could link shields. That could make swarms less desirable/powerful. If big ships can link to create powerful area shields where small ships in a datalink would have less powerful area shields - that could help. That is an interesting thought - Sz.
This could also help to offset to some degree the ability of sqns to get in big ships blindspots and chew them up. A link of four DN could create a shield powerful enough to stymie the sqns SRWs skipping so that the ships could do significant damage.
It could also make Zca more desirable (as at the moment is really a handicap in most situations compared to Ze...) as it would allow two big ships in a link to share shields for a long time. Of course the shared shields will make that standard datalink (Ze) even more powerful as it will be harder to reach. Hmmm.... :?

Just thoughts to help balance. :D

EDIT

I actually like this idea quite a bit in concept - it will just take some work getting the balance right.
And the interaction with other systems like Sr.
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Re: New Technology

Postby AlexeiTimoshenko on Tue 24 Jul 2012 21:22

Perhaps make it similar to the ESG from SFB. The area shield could protect against physical impacts (missiles or other ammo based weapons) but be ineffective against beam weapons.
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Re: New Technology

Postby LesMasters on Tue 24 Jul 2012 22:15

I don't buy the "area shield" at all, least of all from the scientific standpoint. If it protects any unit in a single tactical hex, then it has a diameter of 75,000 km. The power output required to generate a single S-equivalent of shielding would be off the scale. As a rough standard - since shields protect volumes, the power needed to generate the forcefield is going to be proportional to the cube of the radius. Double the radius of the volume protected, and you increase the required power output by a factor of 8.

TerryTigre: in your "New Ground Combat" posts, you used a hull space of 20m x 20m x 20m. (I think this has been suggested elsewhere, also.) This gives a TN, at 2000hs, a maximum possible length of 40km (if built with its hull spaces end to end), so the radius of the volume to be protected would be 20km. The radius of a tactical hex is 37500 km.

37500/20 = 1875. 1875 cubed is roughly 6,600,000,000. I don't know what power requirements you have in mind for generating a single S of shielding, but whatever they are, multiplying them by roughly 6.6 billion to produce an area shield of the same strength would very likely require the power output of a star - it would certainly require that of a planet.

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Re: New Technology

Postby Cralis on Tue 24 Jul 2012 22:19

I can see advanced power generation technologies (such as SL30+) being capable of something like needed for an area shield, but what I don't buy is that regular magnetic shielding will be capable of doing it. More advanced shielding technologies would be required...well for both of them really.
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Re: New Technology

Postby TerryTigre on Wed 25 Jul 2012 00:56

procyon wrote:My biggest issue with the area shield is the size in HS.

Even at 'a' gen, if you plan on having three ships in the same place you would be better off to mount the area shields. With no real detriment. Most fleets are bigger than three.

It also tends to push the ESF problem the wrong way in my opinion. It would be a real big stimulator to just put all you ships into one hex and leave it that way. The more you pack in - the more invulnerable you become. When you reach the thousands even skipping weapons will fail.

Perhaps a max value the area shield could acheive in one hex. Perhaps the 'a' has a limit of 10. So no matter how many ships you put in a hex - the area shield only gets to have a 10 strength. The rest automatically shuts down and will need reset. This would tend to encourage folks to break up the formations and manuever.

Or maybe it could be linked to Z and only those ships could link shields. That could make swarms less desirable/powerful. If big ships can link to create powerful area shields where small ships in a datalink would have less powerful area shields - that could help. That is an interesting thought - Sz.
This could also help to offset to some degree the ability of sqns to get in big ships blindspots and chew them up. A link of four DN could create a shield powerful enough to stymie the sqns SRWs skipping so that the ships could do significant damage.
It could also make Zca more desirable (as at the moment is really a handicap in most situations compared to Ze...) as it would allow two big ships in a link to share shields for a long time. Of course the shared shields will make that standard datalink (Ze) even more powerful as it will be harder to reach. Hmmm.... :?

Just thoughts to help balance. :D

EDIT

I actually like this idea quite a bit in concept - it will just take some work getting the balance right.
And the interaction with other systems like Sr.



The real detriment is the total hull size of the fleet. Say you have two fleets of 100 ships of 100 HS. With 1/3 total HS dedicated to shield/armor defensive systems, this gets to 33 HS/ship. Lets assume TL10.

Fleet A does it the conventional way. 17 HS shields, 16 hs armor. This translates to A2/S2 34 Shield hits and 32 armor hits so 6600 hits in total for the entire fleet. Internal damage will start after 66 hits on the same ship though.

The other fleet is Area shield user. They decide upon 20 HS worth of area shields, 3 HS conventional shields and 10 HS armor. This gives 15 area shield hits/ship + 6 shield hits + 20 armor hits. This gives 1500 area shield hits, 600 shield hits and 2000 armor hits. 4100 hits total. Now the enemy needs 1526 hits before internal damage will start on the first ship. In the same hex though only 26 hits are needed before internal damage will start, and the entire fleet will only have 2600 effective hits in shield/armor.

That being said, your other suggestions have definitely merit, particulary if you go with datalinked ships/units only.

The problem with an absolute limit is first increasing tech levels. With 1000 HS ships, having 10 areashields in total makes it an interesting footnote like a gig. The second problem is area shields of your own side and the enemy side active in the same hex. whose area shields gets to activate? And with 5 sides in the same hex? This is a can of worms =)

AlexeiTimoshenko wrote:Perhaps make it similar to the ESG from SFB. The area shield could protect against physical impacts (missiles or other ammo based weapons) but be ineffective against beam weapons.


Another excellent suggestion. As the area shields are similar to regular shields, but not based on the same principles (i will get to that in response to the next post) they can have other limitations. However as they protect against less some other aspect needs to improve, perhaps their cost. For example positive and negative area shields, one only protecting against beams, the other protecting against everything but beams. Both cost one half the current price (FRU), and for added interacting positive negate negative and vice versa, so you could have only one type in each tactical hex, and enemy areashields could subtract from your own if they are of the wrong type.

LesMasters wrote:I don't buy the "area shield" at all, least of all from the scientific standpoint. If it protects any unit in a single tactical hex, then it has a diameter of 75,000 km. The power output required to generate a single S-equivalent of shielding would be off the scale. As a rough standard - since shields protect volumes, the power needed to generate the forcefield is going to be proportional to the cube of the radius. Double the radius of the volume protected, and you increase the required power output by a factor of 8.

TerryTigre: in your "New Ground Combat" posts, you used a hull space of 20m x 20m x 20m. (I think this has been suggested elsewhere, also.) This gives a TN, at 2000hs, a maximum possible length of 40km (if built with its hull spaces end to end), so the radius of the volume to be protected would be 20km. The radius of a tactical hex is 37500 km.

37500/20 = 1875. 1875 cubed is roughly 6,600,000,000. I don't know what power requirements you have in mind for generating a single S of shielding, but whatever they are, multiplying them by roughly 6.6 billion to produce an area shield of the same strength would very likely require the power output of a star - it would certainly require that of a planet.

Les


And a terrible suggestio.... No just kidding :D , this suggestion helped me focus on the physics aspect.

The truth is, youre right. conventional magnetic shield, inside the drive field would require that much power. That is what conventional shields are, generators for magnetic fields inside the drive field. They rely on a drive field of sorts to do some of the work for them.

Area shields however, are a different kettle of fish. They rely on a low strength drive field that is generated in the entire tactical hex. The strength is so low that generating the energy becomes practical. The real breakthrough is allowing the low strength drive field to exist regardless of the presence of other units with drive fields.
Now the way damage is stopped is similar to positronic shields, only in a bit more extreme version. The entire shield strength is used to stop very local points of penetration. This also suggests a few limitations of the area shields. In particular, it would not work well against things like large area attacks that would impact on the entire tactical hex, like sun damage. 1 point of sun damage would probably be enough to bring down 1000 or more area shields. Likewise it would not do well against things like multiple exploding warheads, like a shuttle filled with warheads, assuming such effects could travel across a hex side. A suicide ram against an area shield would do for example 1 damage/warhead involved, instead of using a multiplyer based on the number of warheads.

This is also why it is 1 tactical hex instead of 7 or 19 tactical hexes (range 1/2) the low strength drive field is that big.
Status: 26 types of tech system. Working on fleet tactics. Added b generation weapons, including G, Gb. Possible to give Ships Movement Orders. Working on SysGenV2
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