So, what are your House Rules?

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Re: So, what are your House Rules?

Postby SCC on Sat 04 Oct 2014 17:27

Under V5.12 you pay the difference in emplacement costs, not the full amount, but pay the full transport costs, instead of half like normal. However in-system shipping is free
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Re: So, what are your House Rules?

Postby Cralis on Sat 04 Oct 2014 23:59

Hmmm. I think what is broken here is V5.12.1.1 -- basically, you get to move the old population and their supporting "equipment" AND get to keep it for the population coming in. There is no incentive NOT to do this.

I'm thinking that the rule should say that you either bring the old equipment (and pay any difference) BUT you leave none behind for the replacement colonists, OR you leave it behind and then you have to pay normal colonization costs for the moved PTU.

Thoughts?

EDIT: And as an afterthought, if you use this to move your own populations you should have some sort of a penalty for doing so. Normally they'll move on their own, you just send them to colonize. But this mechanic makes it economically cheaper to do something that would normally turn your population against you... thoughts on what the penalty should be?
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Re: So, what are your House Rules?

Postby SCC on Sun 05 Oct 2014 01:08

Cralis you either take the equipment with you OR leave it behind under the current rules.

As for it upsetting people, I think that's the name, not the actual effect, because I was thinking you could use it on L5.03 population and using it to make settling moons cheaper, and even then you don't get something for nothing.

Basically what I've worked out is a very narrow exploit
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Re: So, what are your House Rules?

Postby Cralis on Sun 05 Oct 2014 19:18

Oyyy... that's what I get for staying up six hours past my bed time and then staying up to answer questions and comments the next night. Wonder if I messed up anything else now...

As for the rules: the "exploit" is that you can get something out of a population before you move it, for only the difference in cost, to a worse environment. Where as, with normal colonization, you have to pay each time you move the population.

You're right that this isn't as "major" exploit, but it certainly doesn't seem right. So either you can't do it to your own population, or there should be something additional.

My additional thoughts still stand. Perhaps a temporary income penalty, chance for insurrection, or something like those?
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Re: So, what are your House Rules?

Postby SCC on Sun 05 Oct 2014 20:44

You do pay extra, normally. Forced Relocations are at full transport cost, not the half of normal colonization
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Re: So, what are your House Rules?

Postby Cralis on Sun 05 Oct 2014 22:25

SCC wrote:You do pay extra, normally. Forced Relocations are at full transport cost, not the half of normal colonization


True. I haven't done the math yet, but an initial glance I think it would be cheaper to force relocate a population from say, a desolate to an extreme than to do new colonization.

Anyone want to do the math and see if this is an actual issue?
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Re: So, what are your House Rules?

Postby SCC on Mon 06 Oct 2014 01:19

Comparing the shipping costs for forced relocation (left) to the total colonization costs at 2-4 StMP (from table L5.03, right):
20 16
24 22
28 28
32 36
40 50
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Re: So, what are your House Rules?

Postby Cralis on Tue 07 Oct 2014 01:44

SCC wrote:Comparing the shipping costs for forced relocation (left) to the total colonization costs at 2-4 StMP (from table L5.03, right):
20 16
24 22
28 28
32 36
40 50


Interesting... so colonizing from a benign to benign costs less than relocation, equalizes at hostile, and costs more than relocation if to a worse environment.

I'd hate to have to make an arbitrary rule that says you can't ship to a worse world. That is fraught with problems of it's own (like finding enough "worse" worlds to house the same population).

One thing that bothers me, however, is that if I'm a race of peoples on a benign world and you want to ship me to Pluto... why wouldn't I just revolt? It's about the same basic death sentence (for me personally).
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Re: So, what are your House Rules?

Postby SCC on Tue 07 Oct 2014 03:19

Cralis, with Forced Relocation you pay the difference in emplacement costs, so Forced Relocation from a Benign enviroment to an Extreme one has a further 26 MCr cost not shown in what I posted before because it varries
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Re: So, what are your House Rules?

Postby Cralis on Tue 07 Oct 2014 08:52

Ok then break it down for me (sorry to be lazy, very busy week with new day job and all...): how did you calculate the above values? I mistakenly presumed you had calculated the full cost of each.
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