jbanes wrote:Cralis wrote:I think you missed what I was saying. For the purposes of doing pre-designed scenarios, I'm thinking that we could build ship cards for specific ships and/or ship classes where the ship systems are printed onto the card into the correct order, and you would use "marker" counters to show when they are destroyed.
You're right. I did misunderstand. My apologies.
Sheesh! Don't apologize! It was likely that I wasn't clear enough

As for the "empty hull" cards to allow players to design their own ships, I'm still thinking about that. While your design has some advantages, the disadvantage of requiring all those system counters (as you point out on your blog, shields and armor specifically) doesn't really scale well when ship sizes increase. Plus, you will run into issues where counters are larger than the remaining row space and have to move down a line, which might be confusing and would leave unused boxes.
All very good points. The only real issue is that it does not help with the proliferation of tokens. The game will still need a lot of damage tokens. Though this does homogenize the tokens quite a bit!
And that was what I was thinking about. You don't have to have counters or tokens, you could use marking stones or anything to cover the "square" on the card for each system.
Then I got to thinking... I wonder if I could ask Litko to make smaller versions of these to use: http://www.litko.net/products/Critical- ... wyNiuZe-jY
Would be fun!
In terms of token reduction, I do see shields as an easy win. Since shields are always to the left and can regenerate, I am thinking of making shields a track that uses one token. If the track is vertical, shields would "drop" as damage is taken and "go up" as they regenerate. For regen, there could be a side track for counting turn number.
And this would certainly work VERY well for pre-designed ship cards!!
But I was going to say, on your blog you keep calling Starfire "old" ... I think the issue with table top wargames is that there is a definite shift from abstract game materials and mechanics to more visual. You are replacing the "string of systems" with an actual ship control board ... a purely visual component. We are working on moving from counters to miniatures ... a purely visual component.
I think southwestforests hit the nail on the head here. Miniatures are more tactile which is a nice to have. Player mats and tokens have the advantage of displaying critical rule information in a manner that is easily digestible. These visual aids make the game more accessible to a wider audience. This may not seem like a big deal, but you have to understand that the attention span of the modern gamer is a lot shorter. If the game doesn't provide cues they expect, the likelihood of the player sticking with it drops precipitously.
Understood, especially on the attention span issue. It's rather unfortunate. I've kind of settled into the realization that I will likely never find new players to play most of the games on my shelf.
BUT, it's gotten us thinking about other possibilities...
Keep in mind that old doesn't equal bad. In fact, I love old stuff with a passion! But it does mean that the audience is severely limited. And I think Starfire is way too cool to limit it like that!
Agreed. I'm just not very good at the marketing bit.
While it does make the game more visually appealing, the downside is that it becomes less complex. While many would celebrate that as a good thing, the truth is that the massive campaign system that has allowed players to run hundreds of game months (and in at least one case, THOUSANDS of game months!) is very abstracted.
For what it's worth, I 100% agree with you. I don't ever see the current Starfire going away. (Ultra / Solar / etc.) What I do see happening is that a simpler "gateway drug" could be used to entice players into the game. Those that are interested could upgrade to the full experience while players looking for a casual experience can still enjoy the full universe.
Sadly, I've heard this a lot but I no longer believe that to be true. Newer, younger players just aren't interesting in monolithic games that aren't computer games.
As it stands today, Starfire has been all but wiped from the memories of board gaming enthusiasts. Even those who play modern war games like X-Wing, Warhammer, or the SFB spin-offs don't seem to remember Starfire. Which is really sad when you consider the incredible role it had in founding the genre of space combat. It deserves better as far as I'm concerned.
Starfire has had a hard life. I'm hoping it's going to end up like Abraham Lincoln: a dozen hard stops followed by victory in a presidential election.
