Proposed Planet Types: B1, B2, B3, and M

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Proposed Planet Types: B1, B2, B3, and M

Postby Mjorr on Sat 27 Feb 2021 18:59

These aren't really completely new planet types, but rather clarifications of differing conditions within the existing types that could cause changes in habitability amongst several life types.

Types B1, B2, and B3 - This is splitting the B planet type according to mass, in the same way that G is separated into G2 and G3.

This would be useful because there are several life types, particularly Extremophilic, that would treat a B1 planet (no or trace atmosphere), differently from a B2 or B3 (with atmosphere).

Type M (for Mercury) - This is a type H planet that is not tidelocked to its sun, either because it orbits outside the tidelock zone or is tidelocked to one of its moons.

This would also create differences in how some life forms would view these planets.

I also have life forms in mind that could have B2/B3 and M as home planets, but I wanted to gauge interest in the planet types before continuing further down that road.

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Re: Proposed Planet Types: B1, B2, B3, and M

Postby Cralis on Mon 01 Mar 2021 02:17

Howdy!

Mjorr wrote:These aren't really completely new planet types, but rather clarifications of differing conditions within the existing types that could cause changes in habitability amongst several life types.

Types B1, B2, and B3 - This is splitting the B planet type according to mass, in the same way that G is separated into G2 and G3.


You could do this -- and even do it for every planet type. We considered having a "gravity" profiles like "low gravity" (moons and mass 1), "medium gravity" (mass 2), and "high gravity" (mass 3 and G planets) as a characteristic for races.

Likewise you could also have a profile for with and without atmosphere.

The issue for us was that we didn't want the modifiers for this to just be modifications to the maximum population. We already have that with the existing system. For gravity you could perhaps affect the MCr output of the population, perhaps with a scale like: 0.75- 0.9 - 1.0 - 1.1 - 1.25 where 1.0 is if the population is in the same gravity. The reason you don't want to have a huge affect is because it will mess with the balance that is already built into the numbers...

This would be useful because there are several life types, particularly Extremophilic, that would treat a B1 planet (no or trace atmosphere), differently from a B2 or B3 (with atmosphere).


I'm not sure yet how to best model that. Right now the max PU for the worlds already take this into consideration.

Type M (for Mercury) - This is a type H planet that is not tidelocked to its sun, either because it orbits outside the tidelock zone or is tidelocked to one of its moons.

This would also create differences in how some life forms would view these planets.


We already have a Type-H (hot) and Type-F (frozen) world type and it covers planets like Mercury.

I also have life forms in mind that could have B2/B3 and M as home planets, but I wanted to gauge interest in the planet types before continuing further down that road.


Right now SSF subsumes all of these considerations into the Maximum Population Sizes. We have simplified some of these variations, and you could break out a few of these details. If you do that, however, I would recommend having an effect other than changing the maximum population sizes.
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Re: Proposed Planet Types: B1, B2, B3, and M

Postby Mjorr on Tue 02 Mar 2021 22:18

That is basically what I was thinking as well: different planet habitabilities for some life types, as well as two new life types.

First, the list of different habitabilities for B2, B3, and M. (B1 is the same as B is now)

Planet Types B2/B3:

Terran - desolate
Super Terran - desolate
Extremophilic - deadly
Gaseous - extreme (B2)/desolate (B3) (based on different habitabilities for T and ST)
Cold Gaseous - Desolate
Cryophilic - Extreme
Siderophilic - Extreme
Thermophilic - Deadly

Planet Type M:

Terran - Extreme
Super Terran - Extreme
Extremophilic - Desolate
Gaseous - Deadly
Cold Gaseous - Deadly
Cryophilic - Deadly
Siderophilic - Desolate
Thermophilic - Harsh

One change in the current tables:

Planet Type H - Cryophilic - Desolate (population is on the dark side, probably at the population limit for a moon.)

Now the new life types:

Cold Terran - homeworld type is mass 2 or mass 3 B planet.

AST-F - Desolate
AST-B - Desolate
AST-H - Deadly
G - Deadly
HGT - Hostile
I - Deadly
F - Extreme
mF - Extreme
B1 - Desolate
B2/B3 - Benign/Harsh
mB - Desolate
H - Deadly
mH - Deadly
M - Deadly
ST - Desolate
T - Desolate
mT - Harsh (or perhaps Hostile)
V - Deadly

Hot Extremophilic - homeworld type is mass 1 M planet (mass 1 planet in hot rocky zone not tidelocked to its sun)

AST-F - Desolate
AST-B - Hostile
AST-H - Hostile
G - Deadly
HGT - Deadly
I - Deadly
F - Extreme
mF - Extreme
B1 - Hostile
B2/B3 - Deadly
mB - Desolate
H - Hostile
mH - Hostile
M - Benign/Harsh
ST - Deadly
T - Deadly
mT - Deadly
V - Deadly

Thoughts?

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Re: Proposed Planet Types: B1, B2, B3, and M

Postby Cralis on Sat 06 Mar 2021 04:36

I think that your focus is not complete. You're splitting type-B worlds based on mass because of atmosphere, but they aren't the only type with a lack of atmosphere. Mercury worlds are already covered with Type-H.

But most importantly, you'll have a lot of math to do to balance the numbers. We spent a lot of time and had to adapt a sysgen program to generate total numbers so we could get as far as we did.
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Re: Proposed Planet Types: B1, B2, B3, and M

Postby Mjorr on Thu 11 Mar 2021 22:01

Okay, numbers, fine. I could possibly do that.

But to start, I would need the chart in HH3.06.10 of the Ultra rules recalculated for the changes in the System Generation rules in Solar.

Is there any place where I can find this?
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Re: Proposed Planet Types: B1, B2, B3, and M

Postby Cralis on Thu 11 Mar 2021 22:09

Mjorr wrote:But to start, I would need the chart in HH3.06.10 of the Ultra rules recalculated for the changes in the System Generation rules in Solar.

Is there any place where I can find this?


In... Solar Starfire. Appendix GG5.06

There are differences, but that's the equivalent calculated specifically for Solar Starfire. It's a little odd because we attempted to average total PU vs. PU growth over 100 months...
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Re: Proposed Planet Types: B1, B2, B3, and M

Postby Mjorr on Sat 13 Mar 2021 17:06

Cralis wrote:
Mjorr wrote:But to start, I would need the chart in HH3.06.10 of the Ultra rules recalculated for the changes in the System Generation rules in Solar.

Is there any place where I can find this?


In... Solar Starfire. Appendix GG5.06

There are differences, but that's the equivalent calculated specifically for Solar Starfire. It's a little odd because we attempted to average total PU vs. PU growth over 100 months...


Okay, I think we have a failure to communicate here.

I believe you are referring to the chart that indicates habitability and PU limits for each life type on each system body.

What I am looking for is the chart that indicates the relative frequency of each system body type using the Starfire System Generation rules.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

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Re: Proposed Planet Types: B1, B2, B3, and M

Postby Cralis on Mon 15 Mar 2021 00:43

Mjorr wrote:I believe you are referring to the chart that indicates habitability and PU limits for each life type on each system body.

What I am looking for is the chart that indicates the relative frequency of each system body type using the Starfire System Generation rules.


Ahh, got it. Yes I misunderstood.

I thought the numbers could be generated with the SSF sysgen? Hmmm... we are getting close to the new update and I think the updated sysgen will be able to do it too.

Maybe Elminster or Krenshala can comment more about this?
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Re: Proposed Planet Types: B1, B2, B3, and M

Postby krenshala on Sat 20 Mar 2021 14:00

I've got the data from the generation of 1,948 systems. Not as good as the one million systems I had generated earlier (not sure where that page went), but its pretty close.

For planets in those systems, here is what my system generated (in JSON format):

{
"Generated": 22193,
"B0 (R)": 2473,
"B0 (VR)": 5068,
"B0 (N)": 5092,
"F0 (VR)": 3326,
"F0 (N)": 1302,
"F0 (SR)": 695,
"H0 (VR)": 549,
"B0-t (R)": 28,
"H0 (R)": 239,
"F2-t (VR)": 29,
"F0 (R)": 1399,
"F0-t (R)": 36,
"Ring (R)": 200,
"Rings": 904,
"tH of Ring (R)": 11244,
"H0-t (VR)": 97,
"Ring (VR)": 366,
"tH of Ring (VR)": 21714,
"H0 (N)": 235,
"Ring (N)": 322,
"tH of Ring (N)": 21072,
"T1-t (VR)": 33,
"F0-t (N)": 37,
"H0-t (N)": 98,
"T2-t (N)": 31,
"B0-t (N)": 60,
"B2-t (N)": 6,
"T1-t (R)": 12,
"H0 (SR)": 92,
"B0-t (VR)": 38,
"T2-t (R)": 13,
"V1-t (N)": 2,
"F1-t (SR)": 4,
"F0-t (VR)": 71,
"Ring (SR)": 16,
"tH of Ring (SR)": 486,
"F1-t (VR)": 23,
"F2-t (R)": 13,
"T1-t (N)": 22,
"H0-t (R)": 36,
"F0-t (SR)": 20,
"V1-t (VR)": 5,
"B2-t (R)": 3,
"T2-t (VR)": 34,
"B1-t (VR)": 3,
"F2-t (N)": 11,
"F1-t (R)": 8,
"B1-t (N)": 5,
"T3-t (VR)": 3,
"H0-t (SR)": 7,
"V1-t (R)": 2,
"F1-t (N)": 8,
"V3-t (VR)": 1,
"V2-t (R)": 2,
"B1-t (R)": 4,
"H1-t (VR)": 1,
"V1-t (SR)": 1,
"T3-t (N)": 2,
"V2-t (VR)": 2,
"H1-t (SR)": 1,
"T3-t (R)": 1,
"V2-t (N)": 2,
"F3-t (VR)": 1,
"F2-t (SR)": 2,
"H2-t (VR)": 1
},

Output is "<body type><mass>[<tidelocked>] <richness>: <count>". If its mass zero, its a moon. SR richness is for 15+ REI, so you can treat them as VR if you aren't using that level (optional rule is 10% of VR are SR, but my system just required the 15 REI value :) ). Rings are around planets. Belts are around stars. ;)
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Re: Proposed Planet Types: B1, B2, B3, and M

Postby Mjorr on Sat 20 Mar 2021 21:13

krenshala wrote:I've got the data from the generation of 1,948 systems. Not as good as the one million systems I had generated earlier (not sure where that page went), but its pretty close.

For planets in those systems, here is what my system generated (in JSON format):

{
"Generated": 22193,
"B0 (R)": 2473,
"B0 (VR)": 5068,
"B0 (N)": 5092,
"F0 (VR)": 3326,
"F0 (N)": 1302,
"F0 (SR)": 695,
"H0 (VR)": 549,
"B0-t (R)": 28,
"H0 (R)": 239,
"F2-t (VR)": 29,
"F0 (R)": 1399,
"F0-t (R)": 36,
"Ring (R)": 200,
"Rings": 904,
"tH of Ring (R)": 11244,
"H0-t (VR)": 97,
"Ring (VR)": 366,
"tH of Ring (VR)": 21714,
"H0 (N)": 235,
"Ring (N)": 322,
"tH of Ring (N)": 21072,
"T1-t (VR)": 33,
"F0-t (N)": 37,
"H0-t (N)": 98,
"T2-t (N)": 31,
"B0-t (N)": 60,
"B2-t (N)": 6,
"T1-t (R)": 12,
"H0 (SR)": 92,
"B0-t (VR)": 38,
"T2-t (R)": 13,
"V1-t (N)": 2,
"F1-t (SR)": 4,
"F0-t (VR)": 71,
"Ring (SR)": 16,
"tH of Ring (SR)": 486,
"F1-t (VR)": 23,
"F2-t (R)": 13,
"T1-t (N)": 22,
"H0-t (R)": 36,
"F0-t (SR)": 20,
"V1-t (VR)": 5,
"B2-t (R)": 3,
"T2-t (VR)": 34,
"B1-t (VR)": 3,
"F2-t (N)": 11,
"F1-t (R)": 8,
"B1-t (N)": 5,
"T3-t (VR)": 3,
"H0-t (SR)": 7,
"V1-t (R)": 2,
"F1-t (N)": 8,
"V3-t (VR)": 1,
"V2-t (R)": 2,
"B1-t (R)": 4,
"H1-t (VR)": 1,
"V1-t (SR)": 1,
"T3-t (N)": 2,
"V2-t (VR)": 2,
"H1-t (SR)": 1,
"T3-t (R)": 1,
"V2-t (N)": 2,
"F3-t (VR)": 1,
"F2-t (SR)": 2,
"H2-t (VR)": 1
},

Output is "<body type><mass>[<tidelocked>] <richness>: <count>". If its mass zero, its a moon. SR richness is for 15+ REI, so you can treat them as VR if you aren't using that level (optional rule is 10% of VR are SR, but my system just required the 15 REI value :) ). Rings are around planets. Belts are around stars. ;)


This looks like a list of the frequencies of the moon types. While useful, where are the planet types?
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