Empire Ratings

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Empire Ratings

Postby Starfire on Thu 03 Jan 2019 13:01

I found this saved as a draft from 2010. It is somewhat complete so I am posting it in case anyone is interested in using it.



I have never been very happy with the spying system.
First, the quality of the information has always seemed excessive.
Secondly, the system has been overly complex.
Thirdly, the system fails to adjust to the changing nature (size or quality) of the spy target.

So, I had a brain storm the other day about rating the "power" of an empires stats.

So, starting with the easiest stat first, economic power.

Basically, it works like this.
All empires are given a rating between 0 and 10, with 10 being (usually) the most powerful economic entity in the galaxy.

An empires economic rating is based on its total income, and nothing else. Trade treaties are included simply by the economic bonus they provide to the bottom line.

The Calculation is complex because the scale has definite break points.

High = The highest value (income in this case) that any empire has
Low = The lowest value that any empire has
Average = Sum of all empire values divided by the number of empires
Half = 1/2 the highest empire's value

Code: Select all
Each Empire falls into 1 of 3 categories.
Category Scale   Range               % in Value Range                         Scale Formula
Strong  5-10   High to Avg     (EmpireValue-Avg)/(High-Avg)       INT(%value*50)/10+5      
Weak    1-5    Avg to Half     (EmpireValue-Low)/(Avg-Low)        INT(%value*40)/10+1      
Bad     0-1    Less than half       EmpireValue/half              INT(%value*10)/10

Adjustment (for Strong and Weak, bad not applicable)

Now, often at the start of the game, many players have the same or very close values. It is pretty meaning less to give one empire a 10 while another just a few hundred points behind gets a 1. So, there is an adjustment that occurs so that a 10 might not be the high any more, it might be a 6. This also adds a bit of mystery to the game. Is a 6 really the best? You'd only know for SURE if the empires rating was a 10, or a 1 or less.

Thus, an adjustment is applied if the Low/High is greater than 0.75. This adjustment is ((Low/High)-0.75)*4 which is a percentage.

Excel Formulas
Where F22 is the value being evaluated,
%value =IF(F22>=Half,IF(F22>=Avg,(F22-Avg)/(High-Avg),(F22-Low)/(Avg-Low)),F22/Half)
Scale =IF(F22>=Half,IF(F22>=Avg,INT(%value*50)/10+5,INT(%value*40)/10+1),INT(%value*10)/10)
Adjustment =IF(AND(F22<>0,Low/High>0.75),((Low/High)-0.75)*4,0)
Final Scale =IF(Scale>5,Scale-(Scale-5)*Adjustment,Scale-(Scale-5)*Adjustment)


Early Game
Code: Select all
Value   Group   Percent   Scale   Adjustment   Scale
4100   Strong   100%   10   80%   6.0
4050   Strong   50%   7.5   80%   5.5
4025   Strong   25%   6.2   80%   5.2
4000   Strong   00%    5   80%   5.0
4000   Strong   00%    5   80%   5.0
3975   weak     75%    4   80%   4.8
3950   weak     50%    3   80%   4.6
3900   weak     00%    1   80%   4.2

With 1 very weak empire
Code: Select all
Value   Group   Percent   Scale   Adjustment   Scale
16004   Strong   100%   10   0%   10.0
15500   Strong   83%   9.1   0%   9.1
14000   Strong   34%   6.6   0%   6.6
13800   Strong   27%   6.3   0%   6.3
13500   Strong   17%   5.8   0%   5.8
13000   Strong   01%   5   0%   5.0
12000   weak   86%   4.4   0%   4.4
6000   Bad      75%   0.7   0%   0.7

Normal grouping?
Code: Select all
Value   Group   Percent   Scale   Adjustment   Scale
16004   Strong   100%   10   0%   10.0
15500   Strong   78%   8.9   0%   8.9
14000   Strong   14%   5.6   0%   5.6
13800   Strong   05%   5.2   0%   5.2
13500   weak     95%   4.7   0%   4.7
13000   weak     81%   4.2   0%   4.2
10000   weak     00%    1    0%   1.0

Code: Select all
Average   Mean   Median
12975.5   13575   13650

I considered the Average, the Mean, and the Median. I think average does what I want the best.

So, now that every empire has a scale, we can do espionage to determine an empire's scale. Thus, giving us an idea of their relative power in a certain category.

So, Espionage
10% per turn chance to learn something from EACH empire you are in contact with. Note: NPRs are included when computer support is available. This 10% to gain information can be increased by purchasing a spy network in a system (Empire??). Said Spy Network costs 5,000 MC (or perhaps better, 5,000 or 10% of income, whichever is higher). Only 1 Spy Network per system (Empire??) and the system must have at least 400 PU in order to buy the network.

No doubt we might add more features to this if we can hammer out the details.
For example: Spy Masters, A table to roll on after success to determine whether the value is accurate or not (if not, you'd get ModScale = 10 - scale) and possibly multiple values in a single turn.

Other Possible Scales (rating method)
Military (??? Ship maintenance, not counting surveyors/unarmed units)
Diplomacy (number of treaties in effect)
Technology (Total Tech Levels plus Developed System levels?)
Colonization (partly included in economics, but not wholly, total colonies would be too many but perhaps, total systems with a colony or even with at least x PU)
Ship Building (yard space)
Empire Size (number of systems surveyed or just seen)

Tech Data would become mainly available from destroyed and captured ships/colonies, and of course, scans of ships in combat.
Its possible we might do something with very good rolls.

Now, assuming people like this general concept, how would we go about rating the other categories. Military is by far the hardest one to evaluate due to technology. Cost has some impact but not a great deal.
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Re: Empire Ratings

Postby Cralis on Thu 03 Jan 2019 15:48

You could always separate “military size” (aka total weight in hulls) from “military tech” and let the player(s) figure out what the tech part means. Lots of possibilities if its an approximate average...
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Re: Empire Ratings

Postby PracticalM on Thu 03 Jan 2019 17:36

Some comments,

1. You might want to give all 3. Mean, the Mode (to the nearest 1000, and Median
2. Make sure you include NPRs as they frequently can be more powerful or much less powerful (single system)
HEL races only. You could also separate out single system versus multi system empires
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Re: Empire Ratings

Postby Starfire on Tue 12 Feb 2019 20:06

Hmm, so was the thought that this might be a good concept, or not so much?
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Re: Empire Ratings

Postby Xveers on Tue 12 Feb 2019 22:05

I'm kind of torn, partially because I -like- getting random bits of specific intel that might not be immediately (or ever!) useful. For myself, that represents a far better concept of the classic kind of intelligence operation that takes place, where you find out random bits of detail from notes, intercepted transmissions, salvaged wrecks, and more.

The overall mechanics are... interesting, and are definitely Spacemaster level only in my opinion. (not really sure if this is LESS complex than the current ultra-optional stuff I implemented on my spreadsheet). While I like the overarching idea, it's something that literally demands software support. If there is a way that it could be made somewhat more manageable and less like a 3rd year accounting quiz, I'd be all for it.

The costing is... perhaps a bit steep (since that's a little under double the cost of a SL 8 Dreadnought), so I'd like to think I have a reasonably good return on value. But if it's something that has good odds of lasting for a while, especially if it was being run at a low level, I'd be willing to pay that amount. Also, I like the idea of buying spy networks on a per-system basis. Perhaps it could be somewhat restricted to how many systems you know about (and buying one network might give you the information to find out about other star systems and enable more networks...)
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