Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby Cralis on Sat 24 Apr 2010 15:27

Crucis wrote:
Cralis wrote:Of course it doesn't matter since there is no mechanism in ULTRA for combining individual fighters and gunboats into new squadrons. ULTRA pretty much ignores individuals for simplicity.


Simplicity? :lol:


It is far simpler paper-work-wise to track 10 squadrons then 60 fighters! :!:
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby Crucis on Sat 24 Apr 2010 15:30

Cralis wrote:Of course it doesn't matter since there is no mechanism in ULTRA for combining individual fighters and gunboats into new squadrons. ULTRA pretty much ignores individuals for simplicity.


Seriously though, I'll give you a "simple" method for doing this... if you have 2 squadons of the same type (Ftr vs GB) and of the same generation that have lost DP's... just shift undamaged DP's from one squadron to the other. If this leaves the second squadron without any DP's, it's gone. There are basically 3 possible combinations for merging 2 damaged SQ's.

A. The total DP of the 2 SQ's is less than a single full SQ, in which case combining them creates one less damaged SQ, and wipes out the other SQ.

B. The total DP of the 2 SQ's is exactly equal to a single full SQ, in which case, combining them creates one undamaged SQ, and wipes out the other SQ.

C. The total DP of the 2 SQ's is greater than a single full SQ, in which case, combining them creates one undamaged SQ, and one SQ that is even more damaged than it was originally.

Having said all this, I have no clue how this would actually affect fighter and GB SQ's in Ultra, as I haven't invested the time required to try to figure out this "simple" :lol: squadron system.
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby Crucis on Sat 24 Apr 2010 15:34

Cralis wrote:
Crucis wrote:
Cralis wrote:Of course it doesn't matter since there is no mechanism in ULTRA for combining individual fighters and gunboats into new squadrons. ULTRA pretty much ignores individuals for simplicity.


Simplicity? :lol:


It is far simpler paper-work-wise to track 10 squadrons then 60 fighters! :!:


You are incorrect. This is a misuse of the language.


Those 60 fighters are very much "easier" to use. However, managing them can be more "tedious".

Some things can be "easy" and yet "tedious", while other things can be less tedious, but more complex.
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby PracticalM on Sat 24 Apr 2010 19:55

Cralis wrote:Of course it doesn't matter since there is no mechanism in ULTRA for combining individual fighters and gunboats into new squadrons. ULTRA pretty much ignores individuals for simplicity.


Um G1.04 allows you to combine Fighters and Gunboats into a single new squadron with the sum of the DP from the 2 damaged squadrons (up to max DP of the squadron generation.
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby Cralis on Sat 24 Apr 2010 23:01

PracticalM wrote:
Cralis wrote:Of course it doesn't matter since there is no mechanism in ULTRA for combining individual fighters and gunboats into new squadrons. ULTRA pretty much ignores individuals for simplicity.


Um G1.04 allows you to combine Fighters and Gunboats into a single new squadron with the sum of the DP from the 2 damaged squadrons (up to max DP of the squadron generation.


Sum of DP PracticalM, not "sum of individual fighters and gunboats." I was very specific in my terminology :-)
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby Crucis on Sat 24 Apr 2010 23:11

Cralis wrote:
PracticalM wrote:
Cralis wrote:Of course it doesn't matter since there is no mechanism in ULTRA for combining individual fighters and gunboats into new squadrons. ULTRA pretty much ignores individuals for simplicity.


Um G1.04 allows you to combine Fighters and Gunboats into a single new squadron with the sum of the DP from the 2 damaged squadrons (up to max DP of the squadron generation.


Sum of DP PracticalM, not "sum of individual fighters and gunboats." I was very specific in my terminology :-)


In practical terms, it amounts to the same thing...
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby Cralis on Sun 25 Apr 2010 02:57

Crucis wrote:
Cralis wrote:Sum of DP PracticalM, not "sum of individual fighters and gunboats." I was very specific in my terminology :-)


In practical terms, it amounts to the same thing...


Not quite.

Under CLASSIC you'd have at least a full page of records for 10 squadrons of 60 fighters. In ULTRA you would have 10 lines with X DP each.

To combine CLASSIC squadrons you'd have to figure out what fighters with what weapons/external ordnance were survivors and make whole new sheets. In ULTRA it is as simple as adding 2 + 2 (DP of course) and putting in the right weapon.

It is more mindset then actual paperwork, but I do believe that the paperwork was a little more...detailed...in CLASSIC with 60 fighters.
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby Crucis on Sun 25 Apr 2010 08:32

It amounts to the same thing, Matt. You are seriously overthinking this, for crying out loud.
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby PracticalM on Sun 25 Apr 2010 08:58

And you are grossly over-simplifying as you have to find Squadrons with the same internal weapon and crew grade.

The rule doesn't refer to internal weapons but you'd have to limit it to that or you would have problems deciding what the internal weapon of the squadron is.

And really I call bullshit on having 60 lines for 10 squadrons. In every 3rd edition game I've played with fighters, I only needed a line per squadron as well.
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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

Postby Crucis on Sun 25 Apr 2010 09:42

PracticalM wrote:And you are grossly over-simplifying as you have to find Squadrons with the same internal weapon and crew grade.


No. I was not!!!!

As with Matt, you are reading more into what I said than was there. Combining SQ's by DP is conceptually similar to combining SQ's by individual ftr or GB. That is entirely true when one is looking at it from the 60,000 foot level.

OF COURSE, when it comes down to writing actual rules, one needs to fill in the details. But it is NOT "oversimplification" to dare to look at something like this from the 60,000 foot level.


The rule doesn't refer to internal weapons but you'd have to limit it to that or you would have problems deciding what the internal weapon of the squadron is.


Yes, I agree. This is logical.


And really I call bullshit on having 60 lines for 10 squadrons. In every 3rd edition game I've played with fighters, I only needed a line per squadron as well.


Yes, there are tricks one can use to simplify things. If the fighters in the SQ's always carry the exact same ordnance load and you always fire the exact same ordnance from each ftr in the Sq at the SQ's target, you probably can get away just fine with a single line per SQ, with something like 6 "o" marks to represent each ftr in the SQ (where you'd put a slash thru a 'o' for each ftr was destroyed).
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