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Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

PostPosted: Thu 29 Apr 2010 23:35
by Xveers
PracticalM wrote:Hm, well if it's changed from n/a to -3 that would make SRW more powerful on Fighters and Gunboats.

I would still allow all the small craft weapons and the large ship weapons firing at small craft do damage across the entire 9 hex range.


Last Release I have is April 09, which IIRC is the most recent one.

Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

PostPosted: Fri 30 Apr 2010 02:49
by Cralis
drakar wrote:
Cralis wrote:
drakar wrote:I think that my group may just end up house ruling that weapons that cannot reach a range of 9 cannot engage small craft at that range either.


But how are you going to measure that?

Are you talking about the most current generation? Or the generation equivalent to the squadron generation? The former is what you should use, not the latter.


Sorry clarification on that ship weapons equipped on a ship that cannot fire to a range of 9 will not be allowed to engage small craft until the small craft come within standard weapons range of the ship. And the weapon range will be deemed by the effective range of the weapon and generation of the weapon firing but no weapon can fire at small craft outside of the 9 hex envelope.


Whether a weapon can fire at small craft or not is governed by the BASV chart. Not every weapon has a range of 9 on that chart.

It appears that all small-craft SRW have a range of 9. I'm asking for some clarifications on that from Marvin (to be sure), but keep in mind that the balance in ULTRA has been done based on whatever the assumption is. I'm guessing he made all of the weapons the same range for balance.

Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

PostPosted: Fri 30 Apr 2010 11:43
by drakar
Cralis wrote:Whether a weapon can fire at small craft or not is governed by the BASV chart. Not every weapon has a range of 9 on that chart.

It appears that all small-craft SRW have a range of 9. I'm asking for some clarifications on that from Marvin (to be sure), but keep in mind that the balance in ULTRA has been done based on whatever the assumption is. I'm guessing he made all of the weapons the same range for balance.


Understandable, I did notice that not all weapons can fire to 9 when i went back and looked at it but the house ruling on systems such as La, Fa, Ea are what Im looking at as most races will likely have the beta if not enhanced gen of those weapons by the time gunboats are being fielded. This would make it less beneficial to place the lower tech systems onboard ships if you knew you would run into small craft and is one way to inspire lower tech players to research the new technology. This is also due to a swarm player that we have that is ruthless about low tech weapons but immense amounts of vessels to deal with and inspiring him to increase to higher gen weapons will begin to thin his swarms...

Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

PostPosted: Fri 30 Apr 2010 12:42
by Crucis
Something else to consider here, Drakar, is that 1 point of damage to a starship isn't really the same as 1 point of damage to a smallcraft. It's very arguable that beam weapons are actually capable of doing sufficient damage to harm smallcraft beyond the range at which those beams are no longer able to do damage to starships. This wouldn't really be true of sprint missiles or plasma guns. If a sprint missile doesn't have the range to hit a target over 6 hexes, it's pretty cut and dried.

OTOH, as I understand the BASV table, it doesn't appear to take a weapon's generation into account... so, while a very low SL "G" might not have the range to reach targets at the long range, higher SL versions of G should. Of course, the bonus per generation above "alpha" does counter this...

After looking at the standard damage tables and considering the bonus per generation thing, AND factoring in the above comments about beams being able to do damage to smallcraft beyond the range at which they could damage starships, I tend to think that the BASV tables aren't all that out of whack for lower SL weapons.

Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

PostPosted: Fri 30 Apr 2010 15:11
by Cralis
drakar wrote:This would make it less beneficial to place the lower tech systems onboard ships if you knew you would run into small craft and is one way to inspire lower tech players to research the new technology.


What do you mean by this?

A> Do you think that lower tech weapons are more effective against small craft?

B> Do you think that weapon tech has anything to do with small craft weapon tech?

Or something else? I'm not sure where you are going with this.

Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

PostPosted: Fri 30 Apr 2010 15:24
by Cralis
drakar wrote:Ok I don't play with fighters and gunboats very often but here is a question that we have had in my group that pertains to this section I believe. In previous editions small craft were unable to equip precision weapons until SL12 does this still hold true as I have seen nothing in Ultra's rules and we scrounged everywhere to look for it?


STRAIGHT FROM MARVIN: It seems that GSF had small craft precision weapons, and he intended to re-balance them for ULTRA. He didn't get it complete, and as of right now there are no rules for using precision weapons on small craft in ULTRA.

So the answer is: NO PRECISION WEAPONS ON SMALL CRAFT.

We will re-visit this topic soon.

Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

PostPosted: Fri 30 Apr 2010 18:24
by Xveers
Hussah! Marvin response:

On that note, here's something I've noticed. I'm building an excel version of the big BASV table complete with modifiers and whatnot, and I've noticed something. R weapons have a BASV value of less than 1, and can get that modified to negatives quite easily. However, a statement later on says that all individual weapons cannot have their individual BASV lowered below 1, therefore an individual Ra launcher no matter what is only going to contribute 1 BASV (and getting it to contribute more is a bit of a grind. Need either better ROF or improved generation).

Was that intended and am I doing this right?

Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

PostPosted: Sat 01 May 2010 04:12
by Cralis
Xveers wrote:Hussah! Marvin response:

On that note, here's something I've noticed. I'm building an excel version of the big BASV table complete with modifiers and whatnot, and I've noticed something. R weapons have a BASV value of less than 1, and can get that modified to negatives quite easily. However, a statement later on says that all individual weapons cannot have their individual BASV lowered below 1, therefore an individual Ra launcher no matter what is only going to contribute 1 BASV (and getting it to contribute more is a bit of a grind. Need either better ROF or improved generation).

Was that intended and am I doing this right?


I looked at it, and I believe that is intended. R are generally more numerous then energy weapons, so it would make sense that it would be harder to make the individual weapons have a higher BASV.

Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

PostPosted: Sat 01 May 2010 20:08
by drakar
Cralis wrote:Or something else? I'm not sure where you are going with this.


Just trying to discourage low tech swarm ships.

Cralis wrote:
drakar wrote:Ok I don't play with fighters and gunboats very often but here is a question that we have had in my group that pertains to this section I believe. In previous editions small craft were unable to equip precision weapons until SL12 does this still hold true as I have seen nothing in Ultra's rules and we scrounged everywhere to look for it?


STRAIGHT FROM MARVIN: It seems that GSF had small craft precision weapons, and he intended to re-balance them for ULTRA. He didn't get it complete, and as of right now there are no rules for using precision weapons on small craft in ULTRA.

So the answer is: NO PRECISION WEAPONS ON SMALL CRAFT.

We will re-visit this topic soon.


Thank you for the clarifications

Re: Fighter SRW Weapons Example/Discussion:

PostPosted: Sat 01 May 2010 21:54
by Xveers
Cralis wrote:
Xveers wrote:Hussah! Marvin response:

On that note, here's something I've noticed. I'm building an excel version of the big BASV table complete with modifiers and whatnot, and I've noticed something. R weapons have a BASV value of less than 1, and can get that modified to negatives quite easily. However, a statement later on says that all individual weapons cannot have their individual BASV lowered below 1, therefore an individual Ra launcher no matter what is only going to contribute 1 BASV (and getting it to contribute more is a bit of a grind. Need either better ROF or improved generation).

Was that intended and am I doing this right?


I looked at it, and I believe that is intended. R are generally more numerous then energy weapons, so it would make sense that it would be harder to make the individual weapons have a higher BASV.


Awesome. I should have a spreadsheet that calculates BASV values for combat soon enough... within a week or two.