General thoughts on rules

General Starfire discussion, including information about old products and editions.

Moderators: SDS Members, SDS Owner

Forum rules
1. Nothing obscene.
2. No advertising or spamming.
3. No personal information. Mostly aimed at the posting of OTHER people's information.
4. No flame wars. We encourage debate, but it becomes a flame when insults fly and tempers flare.

Try to stick with the forum's topic. Threads that belong to another forum will be moved to that forum.

Re: General thoughts on rules

Postby coldsteel on Sat 09 May 2020 14:25

aramis wrote:
coldsteel wrote:What about for 'counters' you use folding blocks for ship 'miniatures'?


Better than counters... but the problem there is that of scale and handling costs.

To be a ready replacement, they need to be precut, and that means die-cutting. And that's got a significant setup-cost. It helps if they're preglued, as typical small packaging boxes are when shipped. But that's even more expense.

I don't know at which point the plastic gets cheaper... but it eventually does. Unless you contract with a producer of small boxes of the right design to provide different feed stock, that die-cutting is a big hit.


F die-cutting... lol. People have scissors, right? ;)
TFN: 1 BB, 2 BC, 4 CA, 2 CL, 11 DD
RPSA: 1 BC, 2 CV, 4 CA, 2 CL, 8 DD
civilian: 4 'FTx' (made FT out of 40K Imp Guard flamer tanks), 2 FTx (old sculpts)
coldsteel
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue 14 Jul 2009 15:28
Location: Tulsa, OK

Re: General thoughts on rules

Postby Cralis on Wed 13 May 2020 19:00

The Starfire counters we sell right now were cut with a laser...
Image
User avatar
Cralis
SDS Member
SDS Member
 
Posts: 11725
Joined: Tue 30 Jun 2009 19:27
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: General thoughts on rules

Postby Xveers on Thu 14 May 2020 21:04

If you're looking at getting chits made, so long as you stick to a fairly common/standard format (which I believe the Starfire chits do) then you can save quite a bit on the tooling and production costs, and just have the per-unit printing and packing.
User avatar
Xveers
Vice Admiral
Vice Admiral
 
Posts: 898
Joined: Wed 15 Jul 2009 02:26
Location: New Westminster, BC, Canada

Re: General thoughts on rules

Postby ManticoranPrince on Thu 06 May 2021 14:42

I didn't want to start a full new topic but I was wondering if for the next version:

A] there could be a note on accessibility at the top, if the he/his pronouns is kept throughout, it's just re historical reasons or to keep character count down on a 400 page rulebook - or I'm sure there won't be too many objections to switch to she?

B] Since examples are in their own section, I think it would be good to have illustrations on some of the more complex topics, or to flavour it up a bit
ManticoranPrince
Shuttle Pilot
Shuttle Pilot
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun 25 Apr 2021 11:01

Re: General thoughts on rules

Postby Cralis on Sat 08 May 2021 00:22

Howdy! Let me say welcome to the Starfire forum! Are you a new player or an older player that has found us again?

ManticoranPrince wrote:I didn't want to start a full new topic but I was wondering if for the next version:

A] there could be a note on accessibility at the top, if the he/his pronouns is kept throughout, it's just re historical reasons or to keep character count down on a 400 page rulebook - or I'm sure there won't be too many objections to switch to she?


We are planning to address this in the acknowledgements section of the next version of our Solar Starfire rules. In the interest of keeping our massive ruleset as small, clean, and legible as possible we decided to stick with gender neutral or he/him/his references as appropriate. We are by no means implying a promotion of one gender or the exclusion of any other genders, and hope that everyone from all walks of life will find our game fun and interesting to play.

B] Since examples are in their own section, I think it would be good to have illustrations on some of the more complex topics, or to flavour it up a bit


We added some illustrations for arcs of fire and tables for legibility over the last several versions, but the 400+ page ruleset is already daunting to more casual players, so we are trying to make it smaller (if possible).

I would agree that having some additional artwork and illustrations would be nice and we have considered adding some illustrations and better examples that can be referenced online, when we finally rebuild the website.

If you encounter any examples that you think might be better understood with an illustration, please let us know so we make notes for consideration when we update the document to the next version.

Thank you for your suggestions! We are always seeking ways to make the rules easier to understand, and our game easier to play. It's not easy to dominate the universe!
Image
User avatar
Cralis
SDS Member
SDS Member
 
Posts: 11725
Joined: Tue 30 Jun 2009 19:27
Location: Oregon, USA

Re: General thoughts on rules

Postby ManticoranPrince on Tue 11 May 2021 13:22

Thanks for the welcome - I'm new but feel like this game really combines everything I enjoy (Starfleet game, Honor Harrington etc...).

Yeah on A that's fine re adding to acknowledgments 8-)

On B the more I go through the rules, the more I feel like a 2 part 'fluff doc' is missing:
- Part 1 would be a walkthrough of some specific scenarios like a close call surviving of an attack on a home planet by an invader, then some research and bare-bones empire building, then research and upgrading, then attacking the oppressor with planetary landing and disabling of forces. Like a step-by-step illustration of some of the rules (stupid example this could clarify: missed the pulse movement in the quick start rules originally lol).

- Part 2 would be bringing back some background civilisations, in fact I see a Stars At War converted to the Ultra Rules, I guess it's compatible with Solar but it feels like the game is in a state where there is 30 years of content on the one hand, and some of the coolest and detailed 'ASL in Space' rules on the other, so this could be a 'bridge' of sorts.

I do like the overall idea of keeping the core rules lean, I'm actually keen to see a print run to get a physical copy, too much screentime in this day-an-age!
ManticoranPrince
Shuttle Pilot
Shuttle Pilot
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun 25 Apr 2021 11:01

Re: General thoughts on rules

Postby Cralis on Thu 13 May 2021 02:07

ManticoranPrince wrote:Thanks for the welcome - I'm new but feel like this game really combines everything I enjoy (Starfleet game, Honor Harrington etc...).


Even better, the original Starfire game in 1976 was written by Steve Cole of Task Force Games and the third edition (what we call "Classic Starfire") was written by David Weber. That's why you are seeing so many similarities!

Yeah on A that's fine re adding to acknowledgments 8-)


I wanted to also add a bit about making it as clean as possible for future alien races to translate and play our game, but a few of our members felt that it would detract from the message...

On B the more I go through the rules, the more I feel like a 2 part 'fluff doc' is missing:
- Part 1 would be a walkthrough of some specific scenarios like a close call surviving of an attack on a home planet by an invader, then some research and bare-bones empire building, then research and upgrading, then attacking the oppressor with planetary landing and disabling of forces. Like a step-by-step illustration of some of the rules (stupid example this could clarify: missed the pulse movement in the quick start rules originally lol).


Actually -- Lomn, one of our forum members, built a tutorial for Solar Starfire! It is linked in our links section of the forum. Meet Ernie the Earthling! http://starfire.rochelle.name/tutorials

One of the downsides to have a forum with ten years of history is that it's hard to find some of these tidbits hiding in here. Never hesitate to ask questions, someone has an answer! :)

We are nearing the current iteration of the Solar Starfire rules for the next release, but the examples section and the advice section are going to get revamps in the version after that. We are looking at providing more robust examples and I've added your suggestions to our list for that update.

- Part 2 would be bringing back some background civilisations, in fact I see a Stars At War converted to the Ultra Rules, I guess it's compatible with Solar but it feels like the game is in a state where there is 30 years of content on the one hand, and some of the coolest and detailed 'ASL in Space' rules on the other, so this could be a 'bridge' of sorts.


We completely agree.

But it's a little bit harder because we cannot continue to use the Classic Starfire history, it belongs to David Weber. If you look back in the forum we've mentioned some tidbits about writing a new history unique to Solar Starfire, but we've been trying to get the re-writes needed to the rules for that done first.

In the meantime, we have some players that have put fiction into our Fiction Forum that is outstanding. I recommend you take a look at:

The deWulf Universe by our very own playtester Xveers: viewforum.php?f=19

The Nemesis campaign by Procyon: viewforum.php?f=56

We have an open policy for adding sub-sections in the fiction section for players who wants to write about their games. There are several dozen other sub-sections in there from players over the last ten years.

I do like the overall idea of keeping the core rules lean, I'm actually keen to see a print run to get a physical copy, too much screentime in this day-an-age!


The biggest hindrance that we have is that we are a really small company and the core Starfire Design Studio group are people with "day jobs" to pay the bills. We've kept Starfire going for more than 10 years, and we are slowly working our way towards getting into a better position to break out. Thus the miniatures (thank you Todd aka Otterman!), the re-release of the older products for our older players who wanted to keep playing them, working with some fans who are experimenting with building fan software (Lomn's spreadsheets are a good example of where that has succeeded so far)... and a few newer projects like the background history that we are working towards.
Image
User avatar
Cralis
SDS Member
SDS Member
 
Posts: 11725
Joined: Tue 30 Jun 2009 19:27
Location: Oregon, USA

Previous

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests

cron